Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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If I were Jesus

Member

07-29-2013

Please keep his identity of being a sustained DPS hard to duel dude.


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Gott

Junior Member

07-29-2013

Hes so weak early


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Niick

Senior Member

07-29-2013

I made a post about skarner a while ago and i had some ideas to help him, obviously some of these are kind of stupid but i thought i would put in some of my thoughts.

Crystalline Exoskeleton (W) Attack Speed I think this is a great ability and the numbers look good on paper, but in game there is some stuff that is lacking. First off, the attack speed buff is great on skarner but if you are using it in a fight or clearing jungle camps then you are most likely taking damage. The shield lasts for 2-3 seconds against monsters and about 1 ability from a champion breaks it. This gives you about 2 attacks with increased attack speed which is kind of pathetic. I think the attack speed should get moved as a passive on that ability and then some numbers could be tweaked. This would benefit skarner alot and give him better dueling and a better use of his passive.

Movement Speed I also think that the movement speed on this ability is also underwhelming. It is great for moving around the map quickly, but what skarner really needs is a larger haste for better ganks since he was no gap closers or heavy CC on his pre-6 ganks. I think that the movement speed could be changed to a larger haste that decays over time so that it can be more useful in ganks. This would not change his ability to move around the map because with a level 1 W the movement speed would start at 20% then decay down to 10% which would be the same as 15% in the long run. This allows him to get closer to the target faster in order to get his slows off.

Fracture (E) Solution one This ability is pretty useless on jungle skarner. Its one of the only abilities that usually does not get a point in until level 13. It has a horrible range and does mediocre damage and sustain at a fairly high mana cost. Since skarner is really mana reliant, this ability is useless and you might as well upgrade your shield. I think that a solution for this could be making more viable and mana efficient when clearing the jungle. If you consume all of the marks, then you are refunded half the mana and the cooldown is halved. This would make the ability a lot more useful and give you great sustain if you manage to detonate all of the marks.

Solution Two Another idea that would make this ability a lot better is giving it ganking capabilities. Fracture could get an increased range (800) and act similar to his Q. If it hits a unit than it can also charge him with crystal energy allowing him to get his Q slow off right away. Additionally it can deal bonus damage and apply the same slow if he is charged. This would give him a lot better ganks without his ult and allow him to catch up to his targets that jump away by slowing them from a distance. I think if they added this than they might have to lower the initial damage. as an example, his E currently does 80 damage at rank one. It could deal 60 damage + 40 if skarner is charged.
If we go with this idea than his W could be changed so that he gets the attack speed boost if he is charged. I think this would give skarner more of a reward if he gets charged from landing an ability and is makes him a lot more viable.


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Conja

Junior Member

07-29-2013

I think you should rework how his Q and E work entirely, and maybe have something to actually do with scorpians, like a stacking poison single target with Q or something and hitting them with E explodes the poison like varus. I dont know, something along those lines but his E right now is useless and his Q is underwhelming as well. You need mana regen, AD, AP, tankyness, move speed, everything to play skarner. You just need to put so much into his build before he's capable of doing anything game changing


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Nom Nom Dat Ashe

Junior Member

07-29-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
-Sitting on top of the enemy team, tanking and dealing damage and disruption.
-Having unexpected damage output, damage, and sustain at all stages of the game.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
-He either needs to be AP or AD. He scales far too much off of AP to be considered AD, but at the same time deals too much AD to be considered viable for AP or AP tank builds. He currently suffers from the Sion syndrome, and it's somewhat confusing to itemize him, especially for less experienced players.
-His E is lackluster in terms of damage and only serves to take up animation time in fights that can otherwise be used to deal more damage with Q or autoattacks, and is viable as sustain only in the early-to-mid stages of jungling. Most if not all Skarner players max Q > W > E, so the increased damage and sustain later in the game is a somewhat moot point with the scaling and building of defensive stats. As a side note, in my opinion, making his E castable while moving (like his Q) would be an instant and substantial boost in viability, perhaps changing it to cast in the direction of the cursor to improve QoL with this change.
-For what it does, his ultimate is underwhelming in the current state of the game. Its castable range, amount of CC, and most notably the cooldown need work. Skarner is a total melee champion, and has no gap closing except for the speed boost from his W. In this way he functions a lot like Darius, and can only really initiate with a Flash-ult (or in Darius' case Flash-E), except has a shorter range (350 on Skarner ult, 540 on Darius E), much higher cooldown, and can only affect one person. The only advantage it has is that you have total suppression for a little under 2 seconds and can drag them during this time.
-He is easily kitable, and can't easily get to the backline to do his job, especially in higher ELO, without someone else initiating.
-You need to hit 2 Q's to start slowing enemies. Not counting ult, this is anywhere from a 1.4 second (with max CDR) to 3.5 second delay to start CC'ing the enemy with his kit, and this is after you land ONE Q.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
-Flash-ulting onto a carry.
-Going against him with a team/on a champion with little to no escapes or kite potential.
-Not being able to out-damage his sustain.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
(I apologize in advance that I make Skarner out to be completely horrible and unviable in this section, he's nowhere NEAR as bad as I make it seem).
-Udyr can output more damage with almost any build, has more mobility, and usually has more passive tankiness and sustain. His turtle and bear stances do the job of his W except on a much lower cooldown and with more utility with the bear stun, movement speed with bear and passive (not counting Udyr passive, bear stance scales to 35% bonus MS at level 5, Crystalline Exoskeleton only scales to 23% bonus MS at level 5, and I know Crystalline Exoskeleton is 6 seconds and bear stance is 3 seconds at max rank, but bear stance has 1/3 of the cooldown, Crystalline Exoskeleton's benefits are lost when the shield is broken, and Udyr has even more movement speed from his passive), and sustain with turtle shield and life steal. Udyr basically has Skarner's passive in a best case scenario for free built into the fact that he has such better cooldowns on his abilities, being able to spam bear movement speed/stun, turtle shield, and tiger/phoenix damage. Skarner and Udyr in their current jungle state serve to snowball lanes early and sit in the middle of teamfights mid-late game to soak and deal damage, but Udyr does the former far better pre-6, and the latter better due to his increased mobility.
-Warwick has much more sustain, much more movement, and arguably the better ult because it can be casted at range, has a shorter CD, has slightly better scaling and better base damage, and he gains life steal and heals from the damage for the duration. On a completely unrelated note, Warwick's ultimate really rustles my jimmies. It does magic damage but has insane AD scaling. How does that even work?
-Dr. Mundo has more sustain, movement, damage, and sustained disruption lategame. He also has a spammable percent-health poke.
-Mid-late game Nasus has much more sustain and tankiness with passive life steal and his ultimate, utility with Wither and Spirit Fire, and damage, both on-hit with his Q scaling, and DoT with Spirit Fire and ultimate.
-Sejuani has more consistent CC (AoE or otherwise) and better gap closing.
-Hecarim is basically Skarner on steroids. He has a larger area of damage, far more movement, more consistent CC, and more sustain in teamfights with his Spirit of Dread.
-Shyvana does more damage, has a larger effective area of damage output in her ultimate form, and in the current meta can control dragon and baron far better.
-Trundle has far far more sustain, but they're almost even in most every other aspect.
-Nunu is similar, except in trade for consistent damage output, he has more consistent movement speed and CC, and FAR better neutral monster control.
-In the event of a Wukong jungle, he has far better ganks with his Decoy-Nimbus Strike-Ultimate combo, more damage, and has gap closing that is harder to kite or run away from.
-Volibear is roughly the same as Skarner, except has slightly better sustain with his passive, more consistent CC and chasing with his Q and E (which can both be cast while moving), and as extra treats, his movement speed steroid is MUCH more effective moving towards champions and flips them, and his attack speed steroid has a finisher move active.
-Most other junglers do better in at least two or more areas of play than Skarner, but their playstyles and kits are so much different that it renders any further arguments a moot point.

In a nutshell, Skarner's problem is the unviability of his E and ultimate, and the ability of other similar champions to run in and sit on the enemy team more effectively.


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CrazyGoNuts

Senior Member

07-29-2013

the biggest thing that you could do RIGHT NOW to help the skarners / udyrs of the world would be to make frozen gauntlet melee only. Any ranged champ that can manage to get good use out of it makes it abusive.


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Battlecop

Junior Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
-Being able to pull people of course! but other than that his q is really strong with red buff, people can't escape you!

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
-His old ult could pull people after they flashed away, now even if the channel goes off the ult does not. I would like to have the old ult back...

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
-His jungle speed is really good, counter jungling skarner is one of the most annoying things to deal with, other than nunu.

Are there champions that do Skarnerís job better than he does? Why?
-For counter jungling, nunu, for ganks I'd say Maokai has an instant root that holds them up longer than skarners ult. It may not pull them but you will most likely still get a kill for it. Plus it has a short cool down.


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Epjest

Senior Member

07-29-2013

About his Attack Speed/Slow dilemma,

What if his Q stacked up attack speed the more you used it (if your using Q your likely in range to auto)
His E caused a slow when consumed that way we can choose when we want to slow targets (Or have it have a slow and double the effect when consumed)


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Tsuusetsu

Senior Member

07-29-2013

His shield needs a bigger flat amount. Im thinking of a 100/200/300/400/500 or 100/175/250/325/400 shield, with a .03 ap ratio or something. Skarner doesn't build a lot of ap, if at all, so you cant rely on him getting ap to make the shield good. His ult is good, but let him auto attakc during it. in 1v1 there is no reason to use it unless to interupt a channel. In addition, I like the thought of his heal being on his E, but this removes his ability to take towers fast. Perhaps make the AS buff work on cast, AND refresh on hit. This way it retains some tower taking ability. And if hes fighting more then 1 enemy, he can keep the AS buff for longer.


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TH4N4T045T

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Junior Member

07-29-2013

Here is the idea I came up with:
How about make his W a decaying shield, and as his shield decays over time, he gains more movement speed, and retains the movement speed for few seconds after the shield is gone. Then we could move the slow from his Q to his W, so autoattacking the target slows them when the shield is up (as if the crystals from his claws attach the target slowing them down). WIth this in mind we could move the attack speed buff to his Q, so that for each consecutive Q gives him stacks of increasing attack speed to a cap. These changes would 1) allow for better clears in the jungle, 2) address the permaslow problems he currently has, and 3) gives the player some thought into what should be leveled up (i.e. max Q first for better clears, or max W for better gank potential).