Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Zolrain

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CracatoaX View Post
I really like the attack speed buff on Skarner, it with his passive and shield is what makes him such an amazing duelist.
usually ur just spamming Q so i barely notice it lol


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Major Nuker

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I'm seeing the feedback about removing the permaslow from Q. It's definitely a loss in power for Skarner, but with the goal of increasing his consistency, it could work out to his benefit. How would you feel about Skarner having a way to activate his slow right off the bat instead of delayed instead of having permaslow?
Honestly I think it's the fact he is too easily kited compared to others. The W cooldown gives big gaps in play where Skarner does nothing, while Udyr for example can still rapidly catch people. Voli has a similar issue, but his passive mixed with the toss mean he can afford to go in harder than Skarner can.

Honestly, he'd be close to perfect utility wise if his W worked like Eve's, or reduced slows/nullified incoming for several seconds. It would make him very scary as well and force hard cc on him, fulfilling a tanky role too.


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Mísery

Senior Member

07-29-2013

My suggestion for Skarner is that his Q's apply stacks that increase the duration of his impale.


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BlehhhhBlahhhh

Junior Member

07-29-2013

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Being able to pull and initiate someone from enemy team is absolutely the best.

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
With his shield nerfed and the increasingly common BORK build along with movement speed changes makes it hard for skarner to even get close. Similar problem as Udyr before change. His position also feels like its been replace by Vi.

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
If you can't kite and flash is down, there's no escape.

Are there champions that do Skarners job better than he does? Why?
Vi. Has the same very hard cc initiate along with a better gap closer. Vi's sticking power is just as strong as skarners but onto of that vi has % damage so she can build pure tanky and still matter. Skarner drops off and becomes more of a support type character after building tanky. If he builds damage then he gets blown up.


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Emerald Acid

Senior Member

07-29-2013

Just adding more fuel to the already established points as a long time Skarner main.

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
>Pulling off the clutch sting and pull on a key target to win fights.
>Sticking to someone like glue and killing them with the death of a thousand cuts.

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
>Running OoM in a heartbeat without Blue before getting Punchyfist.
>Kited for days until one gets Swifties and Shurelya's.

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
>Getting stuck to like glue and killed by the death of a thousand cuts.

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
>As mentioned: Udyr and Voli move faster with their "go fast" skill and are more damaging in teamfights. (Though Skarner still has the best Ult and "key target securing" among them.)
>Despite also not being picked much anymore, Vi does his job better too. Tanky brawler with deceptively high damage for her bulk alongside a "kill this target here right now" Ult.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

07-29-2013

* What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

He recreates the feeling and fantasy of being a predatory beast better than Warwick and Rengar - namely you rush out like a honey badger and then drag something off into your lair to eat.

* What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

E is perpetually useless. You need Chalice or Tear or Golem Buff or you might as well afk. Can be kited for days unless flash is up.

* What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

Champions without blinks can't get him off them if he does manage close distance.


* Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

Udyr is Skarner without the ult but with everything else better. Hecarim is very similar. His CC isn't as good as Skarner's but his chase and distance closing is a lot better. Blitzcrank performs a similar role in teamfights but can't be played as support. Putting Iceborn Gauntlet on any of these guys will generally let them be almost everything Skarner is but better, while Skarner benefits little from Iceborn Gauntlet or at least not as much.

For the record, I don't think getting rid of the heal and replacing it with an attack speed buff will fix his E. I don't think anything would aside from giving it the range of Ezreal's Essence Flux - in which case it would be OP. Basically, the skill needs to go entirely and be replaced with something else. Xypherous and Morello used to talk about replacing E with the ability to lay down crystal mines that Skarner could drag people into - a change on that level of drastic would make him more balancable. Anything less might not do it.

And if it's not going to be a permaslow, I'd rather have a long cooldown slow I can use intelligently rather than something semi-random like a passive phage or whatever.

Quote:
As for champions that do Skarner's job better than him... Well, that depends on what his job is in any particular team. If he's on a team where he's accompanied by divers and needs to lock down a carry, Vi is usually a much better option because not only does she guarantee lockdown from a distance, but she also brings much better early ganking to get the assassins and divers fed. If the team calls for aoe disruption and damage, Hecarim is almost always a better option because his aoe disruption is much more powerful. If you need a bruiser type jungler for beating on other frontlines while peeling a bit for you own people, Volibear and Xin bring similar damage and tankiness while also bringing different forms of frontline disruption (the fling and slow for voli and the knockback/knockup for Xin), and they're also better early gankers. If you need a pure peel-bot or cc monster, Sejuani and Nautilus will preform that role much better. Skarner has nothing he excels at. That was fine in season 2 when he was powerful enough to serve as a good generalist or jack-of-all-trades, but the indirect nerfs have made him to weak to do that anymore.
This is a good overview, too.


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Awahl

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I'm seeing the feedback about removing the permaslow from Q. It's definitely a loss in power for Skarner, but with the goal of increasing his consistency, it could work out to his benefit. How would you feel about Skarner having a way to activate his slow right off the bat instead of delayed instead of having permaslow?
It would be neat if his E were a slow that were reapplied by his Q procs (with a cool down on the reaplication of like 1.5 seconds). His E would be his initial slow and it is ranged at that making ganks WAY more effective without a gap closer and can help avoid kiting.

I like synergy kits

EDIT: I feel like this would justify lower mana costs on his Q since he will only have the CC up when E mark is applied and he has to manage the CD on E as well as mana on Q's and timing them to not hit Q's during the E mark CD's (unless the mark stays on them for like 3 seconds after each reapplication).


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CracatoaX

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzokuken19 View Post
I'm just gonna throw in my 2c on a potential kit rework. I played Skarner quite a bit in S2, and I think this addresses some of his faults, as well as some of his overwhelming strengths. Feedback is more than welcome!

Passive: Energize - No changes needed. Skarner's passive is pretty simple, and that is fine.

Q: Crystal Slash - Active: Skarner deals physical damage to all enemies within range. If he hits any enemies, using Crystal Slash again within 5 seconds deals bonus magic damage and heals Skarner for a percentage of his maximum health over a short period.

This shifts his sustain from his E to his Q. To compensate for the short cooldown, it is changed to a non-stacking HoT to prevent him from being an unkillable healmachine by spamming Q.

W: Crystalline Exoskeleton - Passive: Skarner gains Increased Attack Speed. Active: Skarner gains a shield that absorbs damage for 6 secs. While the shield is active, the passive effect of Crystalline Exoskeleton is doubled and Skarner gains increased movement speed. If the shield is destroyed prematurely, Skarner retains 50% of the effect of those bonuses for 2 Secs.

By moving some of the damage from the active, you reduce the weird dichotomy of having a defensive/escape tool that is also an offensive steroid/gap closer. By retaining the effects of the shield at a reduced amount when destroyed, the incentive for enemies to pop the shield to reduce Skarner's threat still exists, but still allows Skarner to capitalize on those bonuses if he is being focused.

E: Fracture - Active: Skarner fires a bolt of energy through all enemies in a line, dealing magic damage and marking them for 4 secs. If Skarner damages a marked target, they will be slowed for 2.5 seconds.

Moving Skarner's slow onto Fracture makes the ability useful for early game jungle ganks and adds counterplay by making it dependent on both landing Fracture on a target and following it up with another damaging attack.

R: Impale - Active: Skarner lunges forward a short distance and strikes with his tail. The first enemy champion struck is dealt magic damage and is suppressed for 1.75 secs. For the duration, Skarner may move about freely and will drag his victim around with him. At the end of the suppression, the target takes the same damage again.

Making impale a short range dash skillshot(think Sejuani Q) adds counterplay by making it dodgeable/blockable, but increases Skarner's ability to capitalize on enemy positioning by allowing him to come over terrain. Also adds much needed utility as an emergency escape.
This. I love it.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-29-2013

SLOW FOR E!!!!!


Sorry...did that so you can see it.

Anyway:



I understand the permaslow problem that Skarner players love and people who fight Skarner hate.


But even if you make the change to every other Q, due to his passive it still a nearly permaslow.


Then with E no one seems to use...we need a better reason for them to use E and maybe in the beginning of a battle or gank.



Now....What if the mark E gives slow when Skarner hit them with AA or Q instead of a attack speed for Skarner? And the mark isn't consume but stays for a short while like Shen Q mark?


That way it gives the permaslow Skarner players like...but only if they manage to hit them with the E first. And added level to E either increase the slow amount or the time the mark stays.


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Froths

Member

07-29-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I'm seeing the feedback about removing the permaslow from Q. It's definitely a loss in power for Skarner, but with the goal of increasing his consistency, it could work out to his benefit. How would you feel about Skarner having a way to activate his slow right off the bat instead of delayed instead of having permaslow?
TBH, I really like his perma slow, it's really good when the ult isn't up and when you need to stall for time. However, reduced CDs and a bigger speed boost from W would make up for that loss. So yeah, I agree with those ideas.