Skarner, I miss your kind

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Timjin

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewDudeOverThere View Post
Why Ashe still has her permaslow and not getting nerf about it, while Skarner got nerf?
Well for starters Ashe is really squishy and you have the choice to just do your combo and kill her, while Skarner is a tank with a shield and a heal.

The second reason is Ashe permaslow is single target while Skarner permaslow is AOE.

The third is Isterios number 6

Plus.
Have you ever saw a thread "QQ Ashe permaslow too OP", "@Riot Nerf Permaslow Ashe", or anything similar pertaining to Ashe permaslow??? There where a lot of those back when Skarner is still OP permaslow jungler.
Permaslow is only OP when you have no response to it. You cannot simply sit and fight Skarner since he is very Tanky, and if he can slow you, then you will probably not get away. Skarner would LOVE if you tried to sit and fight him as in most cases he will win if he is fighting on even farm.

Ashe on the other hand only has permaslow for kitting power. She wants targets to either stay away or die. If you are able to get close to an Ashe, she will likely explode.

This was the same issue with Sejuani and has been resolved. Tanky + Permaslow is horribly unfun to play against.


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vortical42

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Here is another crazy suggestion, please upvote if you think it could work.

IMHO the core problem with live skarner is that he gets access to WAY to much synergy for the number of tools he has. Activating W gives you durability, attack speed, and movement speed. That increased AS in turn gives you CDR and thus more CC and damage AND feeds back into W (increased CDR means less time with W on cooldown). The result is a champion who hyper scales when ahead but falls of a cliff when behind.

My suggestion is to let him keep all his tools, but prevent him from accessing all of them at once. To do that, simply replace the current E with a mode toggle similar to Jinx. One mode would add offensive effects to his Q and W, the other would add more defensive effects. Something like this:

Q: crystal slash - AOE magic damage
Mode A - Does additional physical damage, scales with AD.
Mode B - AOE slow, consumes additional mana.

W: crystal exoskeleton - Grants a shield whose health scales with AP
Mode A - Gain additional attack speed while the shield is active.
Mode B - Gain additional move speed while the shield is active.

E: energy flow -
Passive - Spells apply a mark to all enemies hit. Basic attacks against marked target consumes the mark and heals skarner for a small amount. Can't mark the same target more than one per X seconds.
Active - Toggles between 'Empowered Claws' (mode A) and 'Empowered Carapace' (mode B).


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Black Magix

Senior Member

11-27-2013

buf skarner pls, and nerf riven and ahri, tank you


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Shahamut

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjin View Post
I don't believe Scruffy means to be rude in this situation. He asked for feedback a long time ago (07-29-2013) and he's been talking to everyone repeatedly over that time. It's possible that he is no longer looking for Live Skarner feedback. Testing Skarner on PBE in the S4 jungle and responding with opinions will be the best way to help the situation at this point. Skarner will be changed, for better or worse.

I've had a chance to test him on the PBE since the last patch. I can't say how well he will gank as you can never trust PBE players, but I can say that new Skarner's Sustain is through the roof. with Machete 5pots I stayed at full health, in fact I only went back after hitting level 4 due to mana constraints. This can be fixed by going Machete 3hp 2mp, which may allow you to farm much longer. One you get the spirit stone you will have infinite sustain in the jungle. I stopped shielding damage and just healed of of my Q. Skarner is a monster at farming the jungle and only gets stronger as the game goes on.

If you can get to your target and have 30% or so CDR, your E recharges fast enough to use it again as it runs out, granting you old Skarner Permaslow with more counterplay. His attackspeed on Q feels really good as well, and his W is actually really fast.

Scruffy's got this, please give it time. Our stringer will bring ugly death from the jungle once again very soon.

I understand, and like I said, they are going to do what they want to do. I will have to reread the whole of the conversation again, but its been my experience that game companies put these boards out to "quell the crowd" so to speak. Usually there is never a direct response to an opposed opinion and a reason given for why they are doing what they want to do. Which is how I feel based on how the conversation has carried.

Basically, I feel like they already had these changes in mind before they even came to us on the boards to "collect data". Which as I said, Im not really upset about. The only thing that Im curious about is why they usually don't respond to any direct questions contrary to their concept?

Also... I've applied to be a beta tester... but have gotten nothing. I would LOVE to try out the new Skarner and have some real input to post here.

Oh well. Regardless, I love the scorpion, and will just have to readjust my play style to whatever they give me.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shahamut View Post
I understand, and like I said, they are going to do what they want to do. I will have to reread the whole of the conversation again, but its been my experience that game companies put these boards out to "quell the crowd" so to speak. Usually there is never a direct response to an opposed opinion and a reason given for why they are doing what they want to do. Which is how I feel based on how the conversation has carried.
Agreed, been posting here for 3 weeks and Scruffy hasn't responded to a single post from anybody. They do not care about what we think.


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encyclopedea

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Just gonna straight out say it: I don't like how Skarner is right now on PBE.

The new E is just not Skarner at all. It's a long range skillshot that just makes you feel like sitting in the back and shooting it every 9-10 seconds. That 100% goes against what Skarner is. Skarner is a tanky champion that wades in and gets things done. He is that champion that you don't fight unless you know that you can either kite him or straight up out-duel him. Skarner is not, and never has been, one to sit in the back and shoot things, or even shoot things into the back line of the enemy team while he is in the middle of the fight. He runs in, gets to that back line, and keeps them there. If you want to make him anything long range, you are going to have to completely repurpose Skarner. And if you do that to our favorite giant purple scorpion...


Skarner has been, and always should be, a scorpion. You don't kill a scorpion by getting in close (unless you are ballsy like Olaf), you kill it from a distance. You stay away from it. If it gets in your shoe, you dump the shoe. Skarner needs to be either even more deadly up close than he is now, or he needs to be able to stay up close, without anything that doesn't fit his kit, like a ridiculous ranged slow. Have I mentioned how badly that fits Skarner? Well, I'll say it again. SKARNER IS NOT A RANGED CHAMPION. HE IS A KILL YOU IF YOU GET TOO CLOSE CHAMPION.

All in all, by removing the perma-slow and making his E more like a ranged AP carry, Skarner is not Skarner anymore.


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jakab

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Skarner's fine, stop ruining more champions with your terrible reworks.


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Karede

Senior Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by encyclopedea View Post
Just gonna straight out say it: I don't like how Skarner is right now on PBE.

The new E is just not Skarner at all. It's a long range skillshot that just makes you feel like sitting in the back and shooting it every 9-10 seconds. That 100% goes against what Skarner is. Skarner is a tanky champion that wades in and gets things done. He is that champion that you don't fight unless you know that you can either kite him or straight up out-duel him. Skarner is not, and never has been, one to sit in the back and shoot things, or even shoot things into the back line of the enemy team while he is in the middle of the fight. He runs in, gets to that back line, and keeps them there. If you want to make him anything long range, you are going to have to completely repurpose Skarner. And if you do that to our favorite giant purple scorpion...


Skarner has been, and always should be, a scorpion. You don't kill a scorpion by getting in close (unless you are ballsy like Olaf), you kill it from a distance. You stay away from it. If it gets in your shoe, you dump the shoe. Skarner needs to be either even more deadly up close than he is now, or he needs to be able to stay up close, without anything that doesn't fit his kit, like a ridiculous ranged slow. Have I mentioned how badly that fits Skarner? Well, I'll say it again. SKARNER IS NOT A RANGED CHAMPION. HE IS A KILL YOU IF YOU GET TOO CLOSE CHAMPION.

All in all, by removing the perma-slow and making his E more like a ranged AP carry, Skarner is not Skarner anymore.
This is probably my favorite post that I have read in the last few weeks. It really does sum up why I thought the champion was so well crafted with how they built a "Scorpion". A harmless creature from a distance, but if you let it get to you unaware, you will remember for a long, long time. He is a straight ahead fighter with one major trick up his sleeve: his stinger. I liked that his claws made him sticky, I thought that was really cool.

I hate the idea that he is turning into something with range!! That's not a scorpion! And that's not Skarner.


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Limbo Pete

Senior Member

11-27-2013

The reason I enjoy playing Skarner so much is his aggressive kit. I like playing a giant scorpion that charges into the fight and yanks someone out to be consumed elsewhere. This "rework" is pretty much just a nerf across the board, particularly in the reduced cc. The biggest problem with his cc function is that his slow will now be cast at a range with no more means of gap closing than he already has. Being able to slow at a distance seems like a buff at first glance, making cc more reliable and easier to land. But unless you cast it at close range you are unlikely to get close enough to land auto attacks and reduce the cd enough to make effective use of the slow. So in a round about way the nerf to his slow is also a nerf to his q since you can't get close enough to make use of an attack speed increase. What is happening now for me on pbe is that I slow them and they simply run or jump away long before I can get to them. This is particularly problematic considering the ward/jungle changes that make ganking so much trickier than before. So what am I supposed to do with this kit? I can't play it aggressively, and there seems to be no other way to play it. All other junglers do everything better now. Skarner has gained no increased durability (if anything, losing the minor heal has hurt his survivability, even if in a small way), he has functionally less damage because he can't land melees attacks (the attack speed buff is useless if you can't get close) and flat-out less cc on his slow. And his ult still get's canceled by a sneezing Ezreal. I'm very frustrated with this "rework". Very.


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Orian Grao

Member

11-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

-Scruff
1) Definitely his ult! When properly deployed it can be game changing.

2) Unfortunately Skarner suffers the same problem of many other junglers such as Udyr, the lack of a descent gap closer. Skarner is one of the champions with great synergy with Ghost, yet to have a gap closer you are forced to choose flash, it is rather annoying. Please RIOT... Make old junglers viable again, give us some gap closers

3) Heh, slows for days... And that stinger does bring ugly death.

4) The currently truly viable junglers (sad) are Zac, J4, Lee Sin, Vi, Elise, Nocturn and Aatrox. What they have in common? A ridiculous gap closer (on top of descent or amazing ccs).

p.s. I am really hating the changes RIOT is setting up for Skarner... Removing the heal from his fracture will really mess up with his sustain and reducing his ccs is just annoying when you are not giving him anything really useful to compensate (GAP CLOSER!). Please stop weakening champions that are already rarely picked and are already considered unviable to the currently meta and team comps... You guys keep releasing stupid assassins that are all ridiculous mobility and make the older champions feel like ****