Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

Meh, seems to me like there was a direction the rioter wanted to go in from the beginning, and just went ahead with it.

I dont think the permaslow was ever the problem given that he doesn't have a gap closer. If a melee champ can get up to you then he should be rewarded IMO. I think they could have just changed the q ramp up so that the first there was no slow, 2nd partial slow, 3rd it really picks up.

The other changes seem okay I guess, but in the end they take away the unique playstyle of skarner. He was advertised as an apex predator that once he gets to his prey he sticks there and is a pest. But he had no poke/gap closer so it was hard for him to get there. Now he just has a ranged slow like everyone else. Nothing about his new kit screams anything unique. It will probably be easier to balance at the end of the day, but he's by no means a unique champ.

Riot should really reconsider this 'rework'. Give Q maybe 2nd cast minor slow, 3rd or 4th cast the thing is at its max slow % and make his E useful and call it a day. The rest of this is worthless.


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Shahamut

Senior Member

10-23-2013

If you are insisting on moving his slow somewhere else, why not put the CDR on his Q and just move his slow to his passive? Since we are changing everything else.

Every 3rd attack from Skarner is a tail attack which applies a poison, slowing his target by 20/30/40% based on level.

(the sad face is because Im sad about the current rework)


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Sir Puffy

Senior Member

10-23-2013

So I've been looking at how Skarner rework is turning out. No chance to play him myself because you have wonderfully left the goddamn PBE closed for 10 months now, but the reactions from the community, the notes I read and videos I've seen are more than enough proof for me that this rework is awful.

Let me go back and quote the second Riot post in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
-Skarner's ult is AWESOME (jawesome?) and it is his defining ability
Indeed it is. I completely agree on this part.

Quote:
-Skarner is very mana dependent and without blue he suffers
No arguments there, tbh. Glad mana costs are being lowered.

Quote:
-Skarner is very easily kited
He sure is. And guess what: that is pretty much a key point in his kit! He trades off his gapclosing for being able to stick to his targets once he gets to them. And I see no problem with that, hell, you even emphasized that in his spotlight!

Quote:
-Getting permaslowed by Skarner is frustrating
It can be. But guess what? Proper warding and not spamming your gapclosers and escapes (which almost every damn champ has nowadays) is somewhat of a counter to this. Most supports have hard CC too so they can keep their ADC out of Skarner's grasp. A player with brains can stay away from a Skarner most of the time. And getting to permaslow someone after finally reaching them is very rewarding for Skarner players! And no, this doesn't mean you have to get rid of his permaslow for god's sake.

Quote:
-Skarner's E ability (Fracture) doesn't feel useful/can be somewhat clunky to use
Mhm. And guess what? You are not even fixing this at all. He is still rooted in place for the casting animation, and even then, the goddamn skillshot can be dodged while ganking. And if it hits? The slow is gonna wear off in a couple of seconds and it'll be like the Skarner player accomplished nothing. Because taking away his permaslow was such a damn great idea. And you removed his jungle sustain from this ability while you were at it, too. Wow, you sure fixed this ability!

Quote:
-Other junglers (zac/j4/voli etc) are more reliable in ganking and teamfights
They might be, yes, but Skarner has his own niche. Like many other champs. Why do you people insist on reworking champs just because they're not used much? Why do you insist on reworking champs because they don't happen to fit every god damn situation?

Quote:
Am I missing anything?
What you're missing is common goddamn sense.


I don't like the direction you're taking Skarner at all, and I think I already made it obvious. I have played Skarner quite a lot on my original account, and god damn, reading this thread is just infuriating me. Skarner, quite frankly, happens to be one of my favorite characters because of how unique he is in quite a few ways. Why do you make feedback threads like this if you don't seem to be actually reading the damn feedback you're given? Up until this point, I have tried my hardest to not get angry at you, but you're just being irritating with this now.

Oh, why do I even bother. I bet you don't even take my post seriously, or even read it in the first place.


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Crispe

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Skarner overall fell out hard because he doesn't really have a easy way to the back lines and onto those fun and squishy targets, nor does he have the survivability and damage to just fight in the front line. It's a great feeling to catch that slippery ADC with a R, but those moments are so rare it's easier to pick a assassin and just ignore the team instead.


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2pudge1cup

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FurryFurball View Post
text
I have to say that I agree with you 100%. It's irritating how they seem to ask for feedback then don't consider it.

Yes, the permaslow is annoying when you are in that situation. Of course. So is getting stunned/dying/getting lots of damage to your face. It still is what makes skarner skarner as a melee champ with a melee slow and no gapcloser with a tiny MS steroid on a long cooldown.

The fact that riot couldn't balance around this aspect of him and instead decided to scrap his old identity is deplorable. The skarner rework isn't good for skarner players, period. This is the trundle debacle all over again though at least they are still keeping his look and not making him the scorpion king.


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SoulCrapper

Junior Member

10-23-2013

Scruffy, I have an idea for his E if you would indulge me. What if instead of changing it you add a SECONDARY ability that you can use when you have already suppressed someone with your R? Like combo it with the on-hit ability you were talking about earlier. I believe you said it would be like Vi's ability,with cone damage so targets behind would be slowed? Say you sting someone and his team comes to rescue him. So now you activate E while their chasing. "Crystalline energy explodes outward from the suppressed target and slows all enemies in a cone behind the target. The suppressed target also takes additional magic damage" You can also name the secondary ability something fun like "Refract"

Keep the original ability from E so skarner still has a trading/sustain tool but make it useful for when he manages to suppress someone. Buff his movement speed. Make it so that his AS/MS steroid is not removed when his shield is destroyed, keep the permaslow on Q, remove the root from casting E normally, and gentlemen we have got ourselves the start of a pretty sweet rework.

P.s. I think you should maybe consider some form of hard CC reduction built into his W. Like a slow reduction or tenacity.


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WuteverEU

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Actually, a guy on the PBE has an interesting idea:

Fracture's slow duration gets extended by AAs and / or Qs, possibly, up until a cap. It's the only way I see this "rework" not turning into a disastrous Karma 2.0, although at this point I'd rather see it scrapped.


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Raptor6789

Senior Member

10-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by WuteverEU View Post
Actually, a guy on the PBE has an interesting idea:

Fracture's slow duration gets extended by AAs and / or Qs, possibly, up until a cap. It's the only way I see this "rework" not turning into a disastrous Karma 2.0, although at this point I'd rather see it scrapped.
I like this idea since it manages to maintain some of Skarner's old appeal of sticking to targets while appeasing Riot's need for "counterplay"
(Not that counterplay is bad, one of Skarner's niches was his perma-slow)


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Shahamut

Senior Member

10-23-2013

So when is Ashe's rework coming? Her perma slow arrows are pretty frustrating, especially since she never has to turn it on unless she is chasing me... thats obviously broken. :P

Let Skarner keep his perma-slow...


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KyroRayne

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Senior Member

10-23-2013

I've played Skarner Pre- Post- Rework, and here is my take on it.


Q- Post rework feels much better with the AS shifted here instead of being active with the shield on W. The amount does seem a little low, though not too low. Maybe add another stack to it or shift the amount up 2% to 6/7/8/9/10% as it requires 3 Q's to get to full AS which takes at least 6 seconds to get to. If you get a stack per champion hit by the Q, then it would be better as is, but you lose more AS as you have to continually spam and hit your Q to get to 24%.

The shift of the slow to E makes him feel much better chasing because you don't have to get into melee range.


W- The shield and ms adjustment feel much better along with the slow shift of the Q to the E for chasing as it doesn't make him OP, nor does it leave him wanting.


E- The slow being moved to a skill shot feels much better because you can lead targets when ganking rather than having to be on top of them. The slow amount ramping from 30-50% isn't too much, but it feels like it can use a little more. Maybe an armor debuff would make it feel a little more rewarding.


R- This feels much more reliable since it can root during the windup animation.



Once the changes are re-reverted, I'll jump back on him and get more feedback.