Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bikohoness

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Base Attack speed lowered by 1%
Wait a second... what does this mean?
Skarner's base AS stat reads like this:
Base Attack Speed: 0.625 (+2.1%)
that means +2.1% per level, right?

So what does "lowered by 1%" mean? does that mean that his AS at any given level is 1% that current, pre-rework Skarner?
Or does it mean that it is lowered by 1% per level?? If so, that would mean that Skarner is getting an 18% Attack-speed nerf, right?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KillAlQaeda5871

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I see some comments about how moving the attack speed from W to Q is a nerf. From what we have seen (and what we intended) this is a buff to his consistency and a slight buff in overall stats.

The old W gave 30/35/40/45/50% while his shield was up (0-6s).

The new Q gives 4/5/6/7/8% per stack up to 12/15/18/21/24% max.

There are a few reasons why the attack speed on Q has been more consistent and powerful for Skarner.

-Skarner players level Q before W typically, gaining the attack speed earlier in the game. This is also great for his jungle clear times, and early lane dominance (if he's laning).

-The attack speed buff is no longer reliant on his shield. In late game fights or duels, Skarner's shield was only up for ~3s. 24% attack speed all the time is stronger than 50% attack speed for 3s out of every 18s.

I'm glad you all are holding these changes to a high standard. I too want to see Skarner back into common play.
I am one of the people that actually did the math on his new skills and i do agree with you his late game will be better and i understand his shield goes down early in big team fights. I am more concerned with the early skirmishes where he will only get 1-2 Q's off IE they retreat to there tower, you meet enemy jungler in your jungle or river and a get a couple Q's off you know those kind of engagements are going to be negatively affected in the dmg area im sure he will take less because the new buff on his shield but still.
Are his max stacks for his Q set in stone or is it possible to increase by 1 or 2 max? Have you experimented with the increase? I trust you because you actually seem like you really care about Skarner. Increasing max stacks by 1 or 2 wouldn't be bad since it is meant to ramp up, at least it wouldn't hurt to test it out.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bikohoness

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Based on the average time a lane gank lasts, his slow is a buff. Especially since you don't need 2 Qs to get it off.
It is a buff to his opening move (being able to apply a slow from 1000 range)
After that it is a nerf...
"ganking" usually only happens during the laning phase
New slow lasts 2.5 seconds, Skarner takes about 2 seconds to travel 1000 units with his W up
Therefore, Skarner might get one or two AA's, yielding 1 second cooldown reduction
Skarner's E will still have 6.5s before he can apply a slow again, allowing the target to get away
For comparison, current Skarner can prime his Q on a minion on the way in (if he's lucky) then slow all units within 350 units. Assuming he even gets in that close (which requires luck and skill) he will be able to utilize his passive to get the CD on his abilities lower, which in turn brings more power to the skirmish.

Quote:
If you're in range to Q, you're getting autoattacks, it does not take 9 seconds to get 3 Qs off.
Assuming no CDR, 1st Q happens, 2nd Q takes 2.5 seconds, 3rd Q takes roughly 2 seconds. So you can count on it taking roughly 4.5 seconds (and 84 mana) to get Q fully stacked.

Quote:
He's even tankier now with his shield than he used to be. Higher AP ratio and base strength.
How much tankier?
With sheen as his only AP item, the exact amount his shield is buffed is 5/10/15/20/30
That is roughly 1/10th of one auto-attack from one ADC at any level
I don't know about you, but that doesn't classify as "More tanky" to me.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vacus

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikohoness View Post
Wait a second... what does this mean?
Skarner's base AS stat reads like this:
Base Attack Speed: 0.625 (+2.1%)
that means +2.1% per level, right?

So what does "lowered by 1%" mean? does that mean that his AS at any given level is 1% that current, pre-rework Skarner?
Or does it mean that it is lowered by 1% per level?? If so, that would mean that Skarner is getting an 18% Attack-speed nerf, right?
Reducing his base AS by 1%, in this case, means that the base number (0.625) is reduced by 1% to .61875 (or thereabouts.) All attack speed modifiers are a percentage of this base number.

So if you get 100% bonus attack speed, that's 100% of base, or: prenerf another .625 for a total of 1.25, postnerf another .61875 for a total of 1.2375.

Overall, the fact that you're losing 26% of attack speed between old W vs fully-stacked new Q will be the much more noticeable nerf.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Varxtis

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
I see some comments about how moving the attack speed from W to Q is a nerf. From what we have seen (and what we intended) this is a buff to his consistency and a slight buff in overall stats.

The old W gave 30/35/40/45/50% while his shield was up (0-6s).

The new Q gives 4/5/6/7/8% per stack up to 12/15/18/21/24% max.

There are a few reasons why the attack speed on Q has been more consistent and powerful for Skarner.

-Skarner players level Q before W typically, gaining the attack speed earlier in the game. This is also great for his jungle clear times, and early lane dominance (if he's laning).

-The attack speed buff is no longer reliant on his shield. In late game fights or duels, Skarner's shield was only up for ~3s. 24% attack speed all the time is stronger than 50% attack speed for 3s out of every 18s.

I'm glad you all are holding these changes to a high standard. I too want to see Skarner back into common play.

One thing i'm really concerned with is how low the attack speed gain is. Every other attack speed gain ability pretty much triumphs his.. Most of other champions have normal base attack speed higher than skarner, while skarner seems to be currently below average (for both scaling and base), in which your continuing to Nerf. My main concern is he will have no dueling potential because everyone will seemingly hit harder and faster (which is concerning to me since he has to go in to do damage).. aren't you guys concerned about this?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Majin Bl3u

Senior Member

08-22-2013

You know what would be cool? What if there was a mechanic on his Q's attack speed stacks such that if you keep full stacks for X seconds Skarner gains DOUBLE the bonus until the stacks fall off.

Pretty sweet idea, i know!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Varxtis

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Another interesting thought. Since skarner's Q attack speed is small, why would anyone choose him over lee sin? Lee sin has a better slow (with a pretty short cool down) , he has 40 percent (twice better than Skarner) attack speed right up front every time he uses an ability. Both have shields.. And the ultimate pretty much has the same capability of knocking a enemy back the same distance behind, except lee sin's is stronger (although skarner is safer and easier). I hope i'm wrong, but it just seems skarner is getting the short end of a stick.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cuxman

Senior Member

08-22-2013

All we wanted for Skarner was to make his E a little more usefull and perhaps that fix we now get for his R.

But in the end we now get the abilities from now 2 skills spread over 3 skills and the heal is just removed, that means more mana costs and more skill points to get the same we have now.

And than there is nothing to compensate for it, the numbers look even weaker than they are now.

Some say the 10% movement speed is better even if you have to wait 2 seconds for it,
or that 24% atk speed for 3 Qs is better than 50% instant for his E.

But look at it and see that you can now level all you have with 2 skills but after the remake in this form, you have to leave your shield, your damage or your slow on level 1.

So at level 5
Now (3xQ, 2xW)
30% slow every 3,5 sec
17% movement speed
35% atk speed

New (3xQ, 1xW, 1xE)
30% slow every 10 sec
4 - 24% movement speed
6 - 18% atk speed


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Broodshrimp

Junior Member

08-22-2013

If someone CCs Skarner when he uses his R, like silence or stun, will it cancel it? And if so will it go on cooldown or not?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Bikohoness

Senior Member

08-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacus View Post
Reducing his base AS by 1%, in this case, means that the base number (0.625) is reduced by 1% to .61875 (or thereabouts.) All attack speed modifiers are a percentage of this base number.

So if you get 100% bonus attack speed, that's 100% of base, or: prenerf another .625 for a total of 1.25, postnerf another .61875 for a total of 1.2375.

Overall, the fact that you're losing 26% of attack speed between old W vs fully-stacked new Q will be the much more noticeable nerf.
Ok, that makes more sense. The way he stated it in the original post seemed a little ambiguous.