Skarner, I miss your kind

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Muranodo

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Senior Member

08-19-2013

The last two posts have been quite informative. So I've rethought the burrow matter as it was. I'll have to see the kit more in play like I posted before. Hm.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
These changes are still being evaluated, and everything you all say is very high on my radar. I'll let you know if we make any other changes.

-Scruff
I've just had the privilege of finding this thread on the Dev Tracker and I'm pleased to find out that Skarner is getting put under the microscope. Definitely appreciate many of the changes made, and offer some more insight from my experience of both loving and hating our scorpion from the Scar.

One of my biggest gripes with playing with and against Skarner is, as already noted, his 'feast or famine' style of gameplay. He seems to play exceptionally well against some matchups, and exceptionally poor against others. Further, he is incredibly item depending, requiring attack speed CDR and tankiness (health, MR, Armor) in order to get his job done. His early game was usually predictable at best, with aggression being punishing, until he hit a critical point where he had at least one major AS item, one tanky 20% CDR item, and a measure of defensive capability. At that point, he started to feel 'useful'. It appears that you're addressing this issue by leveling out effectiveness across levels, which is a great thing. It's apparent that he still scales with all of these things, but can you confirm healthy item progression is a focus of the rework?

Putting AS on Q is definitely not a bad idea, as having it on W was often a liability. Losing your shield meant losing your AS buff, which hurt synergy overall. I'm excited to try that out. I do have mixed feelings about the MS remaining as a requirement on the shield. Unless I've missed something, losing my shield still means I lose a great deal of sticking power. Have you thought about MS on Q?

Thank you for keeping a skillshot on E. I'm impartial to the sustain loss - as you said, that opens up a number of other opportunities holding him back. That said, his original line-nuke E was exceptionally anti-thematic. I don't hate it for it's current effects, I hate it because of how it currently looks and feels. Honestly, I've always felt like it was tacked on as an afterthought. It's called 'fracture'... but what is he fracturing? All I see is this big blob of energy firing out in a line, similar to Maokai's 'Arcane Smash'. There's an opportunity here to make it look and feel more thematic and impactful here.

Similar to his ultimate, as satisfying as it is, it looks and feels dissatisfying. 'Impale', on SCORPION, implies that I'm impaling them with the tail and dragging them around. What actually happens? Tractor beam. That's not IMPALE!

My suggestion? Q and W are in a pretty good place as far as look and feel are concern. E and R can use some work, and I'd like to see the tail become a usable appendage. If Q is to remain a skillshot, use it's point of origin as a tail animation. If R is to remain a grab, let's see the tail actually travel to and through it's target.

Is animation cohesiveness a goal of this rework as well?


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Driptorch

Junior Member

08-19-2013

The burrow was intended to function very similarly to his current W. It is not a dash. It would provide a moderate speed boost for a duration. During that time you would not be able to attack or be attacked until you surfaced. I feel the movement aspect of it would give the same feel as the current shield. The argument would instead be if people prefer having a shield and being able to attack during the speed boost or instead, if they prefer being untargetable but also unable to attack.

To be honest it could also very easily be a small "shield" but only be damaged by AOE abilities. Popping the "shield" would force him to unburrow. I just preferred the thematic expression of the ability as a burrow rather than a magic glowing shield.


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WinstonAwesome

Senior Member

08-19-2013

As an adc player, I am more worried about the other people on my team getting hooked by him. QSS and Skarner just becomes something to eat Vayne bolts.


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TheRattleCage

Senior Member

08-19-2013

Honestly I'd probably play Skarner if I didn't feel like he has 3 abilities... Why is his E even in his kit if it does almost nothing?


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Twinkerbella

Junior Member

08-19-2013

I absolutely love Skarner AP. He's fun, he's got a lot of sustain and burst and he's extremely tanky. I usually go AP/tank and it works real well. In teamfights he's strong, in 1v1s he's incredible.

I enjoy the E healing because it can be a huge shock to be in a fight with tons of minions and see Skarner replace a ton of his HP after an E/Q on a creep wave. If anything I'd like to see the heal kept, and his nuke slightly increased at the cost of a little damage.

Skarner is fun because he can be played a few different ways. Please don't homogenize another champion.


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Agnostic Priest

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Senior Member

08-19-2013

I am a huge Skarner fan, and I am glad to see something is being done for him. I do like the Idea of a burrow, sure its just a gap closer but it would feel very unique. I would also be happy with the movespeed buff.

I would like to honestly see his e turned into a passive, every x attacks he stings his target and slows them.

My ideal kit would include the iteration of q with AS buff, w with move speed and shield, E passive with a poison sting slow on x attacks, and his tweaked ult to work properly.

Sorry if I'm stealing an idea, I haven't read through all the comments

edit: I would also be cool if w was a burrow with a shield upon resurfacing


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Twinkerbella

Junior Member

08-19-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
This is crazy how much good feedback you guys have lol. I can barely keep up with the thread. I'm seeing a few things popping up in almost every post.

-Skarner's ult is AWESOME (jawesome?) and it is his defining ability
-Skarner is very mana dependent and without blue he suffers
-Skarner is very easily kited
-Getting permaslowed by Skarner is frustrating
-Skarner's E ability (Fracture) doesn't feel useful/can be somewhat clunky to use
-Other junglers (zac/j4/voli etc) are more reliable in ganking and teamfights

Am I missing anything?
Wow if we get one of these for every champion imagine how stale the game would get! Anti-fun is toxic for the game so let's just all stand around in the middle of rift and have tea and biscuits.


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Khmera

Senior Member

08-20-2013

I do like my Skarner with the ability to heal himself. I know you do too RiotScruffy as you stated before. But maybe you can move the heal to another ability? Maybe it doesn't have to be a heal, but maybe a health regen like Volibear's passive. Maybe using Skarner's shield will grant him increasing movement and health regen as time passes. (along with a shield of course) This way as Skarner is moving between lanes he can use this ability to regain health before he ganks another lane? Just a thought. I really like Skarner, an I think his self sustain is amazing.

This way Skarner can heal himself while his barrier is up, so that he can't easily be stopped of healing. This allows some counter play. Because I imagine that when his shield is destroyed his regen and movement speed decay over two seconds after his shield breaks. (and it allows him some extra healing but in a weaker version after his shield is gone for 2 seconds)

I got this idea from the Howling Abyss' new item The Orb of Winter. Where you want your shield and benefits to persist, and be rewarded for being able to dodge spells so that you can come back around and close in. (besides the longer the shield is up the better the benefits right?)


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schbre16

Junior Member

08-20-2013

DONT TOUCH SKARNER HE IS FINE ON HOW HE IS RIGHT NOW! I can play him and faceroll everybody in my way. His Q W and R are all very nice together, with the slow speedboost and the pull, very fun to team fight with, gank, and duel. The ONLY update I would like to see on Skarner is his E. If it could heal more and do more damage he would be a flawless champion fun jungler!