Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

skittlzlol

Member

08-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Glitches NA View Post
What if the on next hit E caused the earth in a line behind the target (or opposite the direction that was struck) to fracture, splintering up for up to 6 seconds, slowing enemies that walk over it (similar to ziggs but unsure if it'll consume some of the earth walked over), enemies still on top of it continue to be slowed until they walk off.

Or if it's poor concept for ganking, first activation fractures earth in a line (still resets auto attack) and causes the next attack to fracture again, so effectively two lines of fractures (slowing enemies) up, disrupting team fights pretty nicely.
I'd like to push this again, seeing as more people are enjoying my proposal to E.

Either in the form of cracked, fractured Earth, or subterranean crystals violently surface, first cast fires a line particle that remains for many seconds. I think stepping on the particles consumes it, continuing to slow on subsequent particles stepped on (possibly a ramp up slow the more particles stepped on). Second cast would trigger on hit effect that mimics the fracture particles in the opposite direction Skarner hits his enemy effectively having two particles up at a given time, disrupting team fights, as well as giving powerful chase for Skarner.

In response to much community support with keeping a heal component, it was mentioned that in order to buff the shield strength the heal had to go. However, I had proposed some form of interaction to still mark minions (and jungle monsters) to allow for healthy jungle clear as well as healing under tower if top lane Skarner.

A cool interaction with spells to point out is dragging a victim (of R Imaple) back through fractured terrain. If the spell has "detonation per shard/particle" this could account to some serious damage, or it would proc the full ramp up of the slow quicker.

I would create the spell in one of two ways, with consumed particles or just aoe triggering:

E Fracture: Skarner fractures the earth towards a location in a line creating 8 fractured shards. Enemies walking over a shard detonates it dealing 30/50/70/90/110 (+0.3 AP) magic damage (taking 40% less damage after the first) and slowed for 20% for 2 seconds. Skarner's next attack triggers a second line of fractured Earth in a line, slowing his target for 60% for 2 seconds.

Minions or jungle monsters struck by Fracture are affected by shattered fragments for 6 seconds. When Skarner damages an enemy with shattered fragments he heals for 30/50/70/90/110 (+0.3), each healing for 40% less each subsequent time.

My numbers are rough, I cannot perform any level of internal testing so do not fixate on that, but the idea is there. Also I'm sure it could be worded better so it's not too cluttered.

Edit: also I noticed that I didn't add any form of bonus on hit damage Skarner deals with the second part of the spell, I'm unsure if that will be needed or not, but just a note.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

oldRakdos

Senior Member

08-07-2013

i had play with skarner a lot recently for know be able to give more feedback, and one problem I have see with him its that the buff of his W is useless in late game because in fights like 1vs1 or 1vs2 the shield is destroyed like in the moment it appears and buff is gone too


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Grizzli

Junior Member

08-07-2013

I used to play Skarner a bit, and heres some of my feedback:

Fun Aspects of Skarner:
- When his W (shield that provides him with an attack speed and speed buff) isn't destroyed quickly its very fun to catch up to people and just move around the map so quickly.
- His ult, obviously. Having the ability to immobilize a champion and then move him around is radical, especially in team fights, where it can make a significant difference.

Frustrating Aspects of Skarner:
- His E doesn't make much of a difference in the game, simply because it just doesnt seem like it does too much damage. The healing aspect of it is cool, but when you aren't jungling and in late game it is completely undermined.
- Although i mentioned Skarner's W shield earlier, this is by far one of the most irritating things about him. Unlike chasing champions with his speed, running away is very difficult, even with one person because his shield isn't able to secure simple escapes. And as soon as it breaks, he becomes extremely vulnerable.

Playing against Skarner:
- When he suppresses you into an enemy turret. Its irritating, but other times its quite hilarious. I say this because when im on decent health, sometimes around half and he successfully ambushes me, im still able to escape him because his ult is the only thing that is able to keep me in danger. The slow that his Q offers in these situations isn't as helpful as it should be, personally.

What he does better than any other champion:
I think Skarner is an interesting champion mainly because of his ult. Forgive me for saying something like this, but his ult can really change teamfights, which can bring his team the upper hand in the game. Its extremely disruptive, and almost OP in a sense- just having total possession over an enemy. Sadly though, I feel his overall abilities in combat get weaker. The only exception to my previous sentence is if his shield is ignored and left alive, because then he gains significant damage with his Q, with the slow, and bonus attack speed. I have rarely found benefit with his E in team fights because I can't find anything to do with it besides take the small heal and damage it has.

I know this part wasn't asked for in the questions, but I just want to say what my other opinions are with him. I think that overall his E and W are the spells that he needs addressed. If his E doesn't do damage, perhaps it could utilize the Slow that his Q currently has (this is probably my #1 thought), and attach his heal onto his Q. Secondly, if his shield isn't edited, perhaps it could be separated from the speed and atk. speed boost he gets from it, as in replacing his boots with a solid time rather than having to rely on his shield in order to keep them active? (Incase this doesn't make much sense, i mean to separate the speed boost with his W shield and give it a flat amount, ie. Rumble's W.)

Thanks for reading my response, and happy gaming!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Meeyo

Junior Member

08-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
1. Ulting someone successfully is abnormally pleasing. Similar to Hecarims E, there's no catching Skarner if his W is up.
2. If you lose first blue buff, you will have very very very hard time. Low chance of successful gank if you don't have ult, or at least red buff. I'ts OK tho since you can't have unsuccessful gank with ult up. I guess it's just high risk champion, you will either cruise to victory or suffer till 20th minute and wait for surrender. Making him less risky to pick would probably make him being seen more often.
3. It's so frustrating when you realize that you are not making any damage to him in 1v1 fight, but hes slowly bringing down your Hp, and you cant escape.
Of course, when you are an adc and he ults you.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

I Crash Games

Member

08-08-2013

Hey i know this isnt really game play related... but could riot let skarner actually impale people when he ulti instead of shooting a little blue light that covers the enemy in crystals. because that not what impale means... or at least make it so the blue light does an impale effect. (maybe like having the light piece the enemy and then having some kind of crystal anchor form on the opposite side of the enemy champion from skarner)

but to be on topic

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

-Ulti enemy to effectivly limit there usefullness in a team fight and picking off runners with it, (in season 3 unless i orb walked the slow never worked... but pre season 3 i love being a melee ash) OH OH and ulting tris only to have her ulti me back effectively pulling her way deep into my team GG tris

• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

-post season 3 i disliked how my q didn't worked unless i orbwalked... I having my shield being blown up in 2 seconds, making it useless for anything by getaways or blocking small burst of damage

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

-Having my skarner ulti and the opponent skarner ulti collide effectively wasting both our ultis (i dont really have a problem agains the ulti in general because if you play smart and stay away from the skarner, you wont get ulti... (especially in this league of dash)

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

-if we talk about a champion who has the control power like skarner and being beefy then volibear is similer and and a much easier time playing the risk reward system of getting close. Riven has great cc, sheild and tankyness (although she has a Gap closer... its not really a big one. I think riven does a better job of locking down opponents when playing the risk rewards system. (these examples are for team fights 5v5 only)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DaRalf

Junior Member

08-08-2013

@RiotScruffy, I added below a summary of what you’ve given us so far. If anything’s wrong, feel free to change it (or yell at me to edit it). How are things going so far? Have your other ideas on E been successful? I’m very excited for the changes you’ve showed us so far. Do you have a rough ETA of this rework kit release?


-Overall mana costs reduced (No numbers yet)

Q
-Slow removed.
-Landing Qs give bonus attack speed and can stack up to three times.
-(Magic/Physical/Both Damage? Unknown)

W
-More movement speed
-Movement speed “builds” for the first 3 seconds, then stays for 3 more seconds
-(I assume the shield duration is the same)
-Lower cooldown back to 14s from 18s like it was a few patches ago
-Shield is stronger to compensate for no heals
-No more Attack speed buff

E
-Heal Removed
-Next on-hit attack that lands similar to Vi’s E (hitting units behind the target as well).
-Units(Champions, minions, monsters?) affected E get a Crystal Charge, which is proc’d when Skarner deals damage to the units.
-The Crystal Charge slows the unit by a constant 40/45/50/55/60 (by level) for 3s.

R
-Fix more edge cases so that the R will reliably go off on targets once it has been cast

Testing Team Opinions:
-P- No recent Comments [???}
-Q- “feels natural” [Good]
-W- Effective, but still requires skill [Good]
-E- Still mixed feelings. More ideas [Mixed]
-R- “Awesometown” [Good]
Overall, good feedback and well accepted by the testers. “Pre-6 ganking machine” and “more reliable in team fights.”

My answers to your questions:
• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
When I play Skarner, I feel like some sort of battle bot or tank. I don’t think I’m walking around the map; I feel like I’m scurrying around, mowing down jungle camps, becoming the bulldozer my team needs me to be to initiate. And that /glorious/ sound when you land your ult and drag the enemy helpless? Whoever figured out the sound file/configuration on that, you have my unlimited and undying respects (You’ll have to share it with the sound engineer who figured out Gangsta twitch’s AA sound, though). Scorpions don’t seem intimidating as first, but they sure sting, and even if you kill them, they’ll leave a scar.
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Two things ruin the enjoyments of playing Skarner; Having such an inconsistent ultimate and (usually) my team’s lack of understanding of what I do. I hear a lot of people raging in champ select because I pick skarner but we need a jungler who can initiate. Or They ask for a tanky jungler. Most importantly, it really ruins my game when I hit level 4 or 5 and my team starts all chatting “Report Skarner, hasn’t ganked once.” Ultimately, that’s why I stopped playing Skarner so much; If my team is going to win, they need to have confidence in what champion I play so they don’t immediately give up.
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
I don’t really find him frustrating to play against. It really sucks when he finally gets on you and can permaslow you to death, but I hate that about Nasus, Tryndamere, and Udyr.
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Trick question: What’s Skarner’s job? As a utility jungler, Skarner’s current skillset is hard to match, but is ultimately hindered by his mana costs. There’s only two junglers that I feel have mana problems do the degree that Skarner does; Hecarim and Udyr. Hecarim recently has mana problems, but that nerf was needed to balance him out. Even now, he may have harder mana costs, but he can still dish out more damage per Q. (At rank 5, Hec’s Q deals 200(0.6) damage, while Skarner’s Q deals 85(0.8) on the first strike then adds 72(0.4) after the first hit. Skarner’s Ratios are higher, but it’s not common to build damage dealing items on him). And Udyr can at least benefit from a stance’s passive when he goes oom. (attack speed, lifesteal, occasional stun, or AOE hits. You name it.)
And Laning Skarner, what’s the point? If you want to deal damage, you’re out of mana fast. You don’t have a very good escape, your cc and healing costs are high, so you need to pick between one or the other.

I love Skarner. Thanks for all that you’re doing, Scruff. Sorry for the long post!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Remni Strath

Junior Member

08-09-2013

Any updates on this yet Scruffers?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chico3530

Junior Member

08-09-2013

I have an idea for Sakrner's E. Why not making it like volibear w, for example, after 3 AA he can use the active effect that slow for 60%. This way, skarner now have counterplays about his slow and this also would work well with his new Q attack speed.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Scottasaurus

Junior Member

08-09-2013

Let me put a bit of a disclaimer here before I get started on my skarner feelings:
1: I haven't had the chance to read all of the ideas in this thread yet
2: My mains at the beginning of S3 were Trundle top and Sejuani jungle. They both got remade and I enjoy them a lot less now. Finally this week Skarner came to the top of my most played list in S3, and now I hear that he is being remade. It makes me anxious and a little frustrated, but I will try to keep that feeling out of this reply.

Now on to the good stuff:

First, I am a low Gold division player (I bounce between divisions 3 and 5 a lot). My favorite champion is Skarner, and I play him solo top about 65% of the time, and jungle when I don't get that chance. I find that Skarner is actually a quite strong top champion. For reference, here is how I play him:

I run ad marks and ms quints with typical defensive runes and 9/21 masteries. After buying a faerie charm and rejuv bead I start with e, and hang back from whoever im against for the first couple of levels. While e is often maligned, it does a great job of getting you CS against the scary darius people and terryfying rivens of the world while keeping your hp at an acceptable level.

I build towards a spirit of the elder lizard, usually picking that up around level 7 or so, and at that point I can win a fight with almost any of the opposing laners I am fighting. Another nice note about that item is that the burn effect triggers the heal on fracture. After that I go towards a trinity force since the movement speed is so great. I squeeze in a kindlegem at sometimes, and usually ninja tabi.

I find that Skarner's all in is really REALLY strong. He has great sustained damage with auto attacks and Q, mitigates a TON of damage with his shield, and gets health back from spamming E. His weakness is that if a jungler comes, its hard for him to escape. Sometimes you can melee kite with Q and get shield up to run, but more often I find its more beneficial to just throw everything at the enemy top and hope to kill him. If that works quite often I can duel the jungler (since most of them are low damage and tanky these days) with Skarner's sustain and shield. Of course, things get messy when you run out of mana,

Late game, as Skarner my job is to either pull a high priority targe, or an out of position one. I find that their adc and apc are usally pretty hard to get to in teamfights, as Skarner is pretty easy to peel off, so usually his ult is more of a wait-for-cooldowns in a 1v1 situation, or a catch-someone-out in a teamfight/standoff situation.

Despite the flak I take for my solo top Skarner at this level, I win about 55% of my games in this role. Top being my favorite role, I have tried a lot of champs up there. I rarely have felt as strong as I do at level 5-6 and higher in lane than I do with Skarner in most games.

So now to anser the questions

What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Dueling people, winning fights with low health, high movespeed and the ability to REALLY DO SOMETHING with it. His ult is one of the most fun moves in the game...when it works. Playing an unvconventional champion in an unconventional role and killing singeds rivens and zacs in it.

His ult in particular is really fun. Ive had a lot of amazing moments of grabbing someone and getting janna/xin ulted back with them in grasp. I really like the manuever of grabbing them and pulling them back and then spinning around so the target breaks free right on top of you for MORE SLOWS. When it works, it feels really good to use.

What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Having his ult make the cast sound but not go off. This is frustrating with any champion, but EXPECIALLY on one where after the cast happens you want to turn around and run away from the target which doesnt give you much of a chance to go after it again.

The only other thing is that his mana costs can be difficult to deal with (I buy a lot of mana potions and have only had 1 jungler so far generous enough to give me blues--that was a fun game). However, I think that Skarners prohibitive mana costs are keeping him balanced. Hes a great duelist, but he only gets 3-4 duels and a few trades out of his mana pool with sheen, so he cant just go perpetually HAM on his targets. Its a frustration that I think should stay. Perhaps a slight mana regen uptick wouldn't break him too badly.

Finally I think that fracture gets too much hate. I find it incredibly useful. The only weakness of this skill is its high mana costs. I actually max e before my ult. The damage increase on ult is small, and the duration doesn't increase. The cooldown bonus is nice, but Skarner's passive helps make that irrelevant. Before you write this off, I get E at one for solo top to last hit, then shield in case of a gank. Then I max Q, taking R at 6, finish maxing Q, then shield, then E. once E and W are maxed Skarner has incredible mitigation as well as huge sustain from fracture that is worth a lot more than he ult ranking in my experience.

What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Can't remember the last time I played against one. I think its his permaslow and difficulty to duel. You cant get away so you have to fight him, but you cant kill him cause hes always shielded.

Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Alright, so what is Skarner's job? Hes a baller duelist. Hes a great pickoff artist. Hes not a real initiator. So is there any champion who does a better job of isolating champions while being a survivable bruiser who can dish out high sustained damage?

Who else does this?
Nasus: catching people out with wither is a similar thing, BUT he relies heavily on the opponent screwing up for this to work.
Trundle: Pillar blocks can be huge. Requires precise placement and often additional terrain features. Can be blinked past.
Lee Sin: High skill kick backs into your team can be sweet and more effective. Lee usually has a hard time keeping this up and doing damage and being tanky in late game. Skarner does not.
Urgot?: Can only do this on theorycrafting cause i havent seen it in forever, but his kit lends itself to something similar.
Hecarim: Fast, does damage, tanky, less mana problems, can use E for similar catches, and ult to seperate teams. Probably the most similar. Very good at his job too.
Darius: Grab plus rofldariuscombo. Yeah he does this well too.
Jarvan: Seems to do less damage and die faster, but has more hard CC

I looked through the list of champions, and based on what I feel Skarners role is, these are the other ones that fit it. I would rather play Skarner for this purpose than any of the above champions. I don't feel like any of them particuarly outclass him in this manner. Some of them may beat skerner, but it doesn't mean that they are better at catching that person who got just a little too far from their team and starting a teamfight 5v4 in a flash. without wasting many resources. A lot of my Skarner games are won this way.



I don't want to see Skarner changed in a huge way. Seeing that I am 150 pages late to this thread I am pretty sure this is not going to change anything, and that's okay.

My issue is that there were specific things I liked about Sejuani's and Trundle's kits, and while the general consensus (HIMYM salute) is that the champions are stronger now, I feel like I don't do as well with them for various reasons. Seeing Skarner being worked on in a similar way just makes me nervous. Like people, I think change is scary.

Im sure I missed some things I wanted to say, so I may come back and edit it. My 2cents


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sir Longfellow

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

08-09-2013

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?
Being fast. Timing his Q skillfully to get permaslows and disengages. Finishing enemies off that are just out of range with E. Going into overdrive with AS and CDR. Catching people off guard with R like baiting them into it by attacking their turret or pulling them into your turret, etc.
• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?
Not being able to make it to that point of defense, offense, and speed. Q and AA is all your damage and it's hard to get close, if you mistime or don't dodge cc when using W you have to wait super long to go in again. You don't really start hurting people until you get sheen, but then you gotta get resistances to stay in the fray.
• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?
Haven't played against many good ones. I'd say his stickiness and if he's properly suped up with items he's just so tanky and will stick on you no matter what. But honestly, if a Skarner is doing well they usually are playing well and I respect that. No frustration really.
• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?
Kinda sorta. When I think of Skarner, I think. He's supposed to be fast and be in the middle of the battle ripping people up, but focusing on one target.
Hecarim has the speed, aoe damage, and cc. He initiates/helps put away teams more effectively. Udyr is somewhat similar to Skarner, he's effective because his speed can't be removed and isn't on a cooldown + he works with lifesteal which gives him that balance of offense and defense Skarner is missing. Nasus is a bit similar too, and he can put away squishies relatively quickly with Q and W while being tanky and does aoe damage.