Skarner, I miss your kind

First Riot Post
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Ekolid

Senior Member

07-31-2013

I don't really support the E's change at all, it's why I play lane skar... first Skar's heal is among the best things you can do for a hybrid champ, it's his lane ability, and w/o it he's joke, cause skar feels nice with a ranged attack and with shield+heal with ap ratios, both of which go nicely with his passive. so I don't want to hear about another on next auto attack ability like with Vi, Skar is a unique hybrid CASTER, yes he's melee but shouldn't just rely 100% of the time on melee like with say jax.

Again, my proposed change for E is to make it castable while running to keep his chase abilities the same, right now stopping to cast really feels out of skar's porpose and kit. also to be able to cast it while ulting like all his other skills would make E much more useful and the second ult dmg will proc the heal since you can't auto attack while ulting. another QoL like faster projectile etc can come in place too, it's about time people realize how fun it is to heal 200+ each few secs with E if he keeps attacking + the shield, so yeah no heal = a massive hit to skar's survivability specially in lane.

Here's my full post in case you missed it, it's the last in the page:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...14778&page=103


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archonshope

Senior Member

07-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by riotscruffy View Post
some additional details about the current changes:

W
-cooldown is lowered back to 14s from 18s
-speed amount is increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 30/35/40/45/50
-shield values are buffed up to compensate for the loss of heal
-speed ramps up for the first 3s and then stays maxed for 3s

e
-cooldown is still 10s (with auto attacks its effectively ~5s)
-slow starts 80% for 3s that decays

with the current changes, he definitely feels more powerful as a pre 6 ganker. He also is much more reliable getting into fights in the late game.

Removing the heal from e allowed us to do a few really great things for skarner. One, it allowed us to lower the e mana cost significantly because it would be problematic if he was able to sustain without large mana costs. Also, it allowed us to buff up the w shield, which keeps him moving faster for longer. If he ends up being completely unviable top lane, we can always put the heal back on e.
i want to make babies with you <3


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Dr Rick Santorum

Senior Member

07-31-2013

Honestly I think he would be fine where he is if his ult was made to be more reliable. As it stands even something as small as graves E breaks it.


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Visceralswag

Member

07-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Some additional details about the current changes:

W
-Cooldown is lowered back to 14s from 18s
-Speed amount is increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Shield values are buffed up to compensate for the loss of heal
-Speed ramps up for the first 3s and then stays maxed for 3s

E
-Cooldown is still 10s (with auto attacks its effectively ~5s)
-Slow starts 80% for 3s that decays

With the current changes, he definitely feels more powerful as a pre 6 ganker. He also is much more reliable getting into fights in the late game.

Removing the heal from E allowed us to do a few really great things for skarner. One, it allowed us to lower the E mana cost significantly because it would be problematic if he was able to sustain without large mana costs. Also, it allowed us to buff up the W shield, which keeps him moving faster for longer. If he ends up being completely unviable top lane, we can always put the heal back on E.
I just thought I'd say that I think the E change is a very good idea. One of the reasons I stopped playing him was that with all the mobility around now pre-6 or ultimateless ganks were not very effective.


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NJewk

Member

07-31-2013

Please don't change him this drastically! He's actually really strong already, and all he needs is to get the reliability back from the huuge ult nerf! I mean, half the time you ult someone they break it because everyone has flash, and you always see people breaking the ult with it.

Your changes would completely gut him instead of fixing him.

Making Q into a "tactical" slow? This is very poor theory crafting. You will never choose not to deal damage in case you might need to slow the person in a moment, instead of now when you need it. Calling it tactical doesn't make it better.
W into a ramping MS boost? So now he can't close short distances without everyone getting the ramp up time to escape. What's the point of designing him around his ult anyway?
Making E into a better ability? The heal is always unnoticeable, so it doesn't matter if you remove it.

And everyone who says he has mana problems and the like is playing him wrong. Infact, his win and pick rate says most people play him wrong. The unreliability of his ultimate is what brought him down. Please stop this travesty.


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Dizeazedkiller

Junior Member

07-31-2013

Purpose - Make Skarner more Season 3 viable

Ways to do this -

1. Don't bother. We love him the way he is.
2. Buff his ratios maybe, tweak his number, maybe a little bit of a change with his slow (half on charged autos, half on charged aoe). Make his ult antiflash whilst still giving room to play against it (not instadrawback so people can use scimitar/ cleanse to escape).

He doesn't need much of a change, nothing close to the kind of ridiculous rework you are talking about. Don't make him another karma. I hate new karma. I don't want to hate skarner too.


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Dizeazedkiller

Junior Member

07-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJewk View Post
Please don't change him this drastically! He's actually really strong already, and all he needs is to get the reliability back from the huuge ult nerf! I mean, half the time you ult someone they break it because everyone has flash, and you always see people breaking the ult with it.

Your changes would completely gut him instead of fixing him.

Making Q into a "tactical" slow? This is very poor theory crafting. You will never choose not to deal damage in case you might need to slow the person in a moment, instead of now when you need it. Calling it tactical doesn't make it better.
W into a ramping MS boost? So now he can't close short distances without everyone getting the ramp up time to escape. What's the point of designing him around his ult anyway?
Making E into a better ability? The heal is always unnoticeable, so it doesn't matter if you remove it.

And everyone who says he has mana problems and the like is playing him wrong. Infact, his win and pick rate says most people play him wrong. The unreliability of his ultimate is what brought him down. Please stop this travesty.
Without blue he has mana issues if you have to go balls deep into a fight. At least, if you don't know how to manage your mana. Problem is a lot of champs in jungle don't have resource management problems past level 6, but skarner does all the way up until he gets a decent mana item (something like iceborn or the combo of its components).

Also, his heal is great if you go hybrid or AP bruiser. It's only unnoticeable if you go AD or a low AP hybrid build. They could change it so e gives increased mana and health regen instead of flat heal, or just flat amounts of mana with health. That would solve the problem of needing mana items and being somewhat blue reliant without excellent mana management, but i honestly like the mana management. It's the kind of resource managing you don't see in many champs apart from things like kass and kog.


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ImSoForgotten

Member

07-31-2013

When would these changes take place? Like 1 month or so?


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OnyStyle

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Member

07-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
Some additional details about the current changes:

W
-Cooldown is lowered back to 14s from 18s
-Speed amount is increased from 15/17/19/21/23 to 30/35/40/45/50
-Shield values are buffed up to compensate for the loss of heal
-Speed ramps up for the first 3s and then stays maxed for 3s

E
-Cooldown is still 10s (with auto attacks its effectively ~5s)
-Slow starts 80% for 3s that decays

With the current changes, he definitely feels more powerful as a pre 6 ganker. He also is much more reliable getting into fights in the late game.

Removing the heal from E allowed us to do a few really great things for skarner. One, it allowed us to lower the E mana cost significantly because it would be problematic if he was able to sustain without large mana costs. Also, it allowed us to buff up the W shield, which keeps him moving faster for longer. If he ends up being completely unviable top lane, we can always put the heal back on E.
Is skarner's E a slow that is 80% at level 1~5? I think that's a little too strong for early levels. Also, the most fun part of playing skarner was his perma slow, when you move it to his E can he keep them slowed? Also I feel as though when you move all the slow to his E his Q suffers greatly. Will his Q just become an overall weaker skill?
Suggestion: I love the idea of a slow being on his E. I feel you should decrease the amount at early levels (and max it at 50%) and give his Q another slow. But make this slow something somewhat small like 10~15%.
Also: With the slow on his E his passive's power is decreased since without a perma slow he will have a harder time auto attacking and lowering his cd's.
Finally: Can you give us an idea of how long this slow on his E is? What the cd is and such? If the slow say lasts 4 seconds and the cd on his E is 5 seconds then I think its fine moving all of his slow to his E. But being able to perma slow people is what made skarner so fun!


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FizzyPop71

Junior Member

07-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJewk View Post
Please don't change him this drastically! He's actually really strong already, and all he needs is to get the reliability back from the huuge ult nerf! I mean, half the time you ult someone they break it because everyone has flash, and you always see people breaking the ult with it.

Your changes would completely gut him instead of fixing him.

Making Q into a "tactical" slow? This is very poor theory crafting. You will never choose not to deal damage in case you might need to slow the person in a moment, instead of now when you need it. Calling it tactical doesn't make it better.
W into a ramping MS boost? So now he can't close short distances without everyone getting the ramp up time to escape. What's the point of designing him around his ult anyway?
Making E into a better ability? The heal is always unnoticeable, so it doesn't matter if you remove it.

And everyone who says he has mana problems and the like is playing him wrong. Infact, his win and pick rate says most people play him wrong. The unreliability of his ultimate is what brought him down. Please stop this travesty.
Did you actually read his post before responding??

1) he addressed the slow issue, agreeing that the "tactical" slow idea wasn't working. instead was looking at having it a mark that slows for 80%. thats comparable to a nasus slow (95% at the end of the duration at rank 5), this is better than his current slow (40% at rank 5) without being nearly as toxic as it is currently (permaslows in League are always going to be toxic).

2) his W movement speed that ramps up will be 30% at level 1 up to 50% at lvl 5. thats more than his current ability at lvl 5!!!! (23%). what is there to complain about here??

and the E is only unnoticeable if you build tank or AD skarner. for AP Skarner it is very much noticeable.