Skarner, I miss your kind

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swag tbh

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Junior Member

07-30-2013

Also the issue of skrner being kited hasnt been fixed... After skarners shield his broken... hes screwed at initiating or even moving around...


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Khristophoros

The Council

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotScruffy View Post
The new E does damage to enemies behind the initial target (like Vi E) so it can still be useful as a poke in lane.
Current E can be used to grab last hits from range when it's not safe to go into melee. It also heals you if it kills units.

So it seems like you're hurting lane Skarner a lot. I enjoy lane Skarner.


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Hawklaser

Senior Member

07-30-2013

i have done AP Skarner before, and even then his E feels out of place with his kit, though that is due to the whole have to stop to cast it effect.

Maybe could preserve the old usage for some ranged poke if allowed it on a second button press to be fired as a skill shot? While it may still be a little clunky to use as a skill shot, it also does keep the option of Skarner being able to try and poke when zoned out hard.

As to people going on about these changes totally ruining Skarner, keep in mind this stuff is still very early in the iteration process, and Scruffy is trying out different approaches to solve a couple of problems, such as the toxic feel of permaslows, as well as keeping Skarner feeling like Skarner. When these changes show up on the PBE servers, that is when can go nuts over if they killed Skarner or not. Please keep in mind, it is not the permaslow that makes Skarner who he is, it is how sticky Skarner is. If they can remove the permaslow but keep Skarner super sticky, I will still enjoy Skarner as it was never about keeping them slowed, but staying ontop of the enemy once got to them.


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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khristophoros View Post
Current E can be used to grab last hits from range when it's not safe to go into melee. It also heals you if it kills units.

So it seems like you're hurting lane Skarner a lot. I enjoy lane Skarner.
As do I, hence I am tackling this remake myself. Not to blow my own horn but I believe I can come up with a solution to keep Skarners season 2 playstyle intact without having him steal skills from other champions like Vi or Hecarim. I dislike Scruffy's current direction of turning him into a Hecarim clone greatly. Give me 30 minutes.


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messymike

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Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khristophoros View Post
Current E can be used to grab last hits from range when it's not safe to go into melee. It also heals you if it kills units.

So it seems like you're hurting lane Skarner a lot. I enjoy lane Skarner.
agreed. E is his most useful ability for lane skarner


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Flana Scarlet

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by messymike View Post
sorry bro, have you ever played AP skarner? it is insanely fun and actually very viable.
AP skarner maxes E out first and it is a wrecking ball.

the answer isn't changing skarners entire kit, the answer is doing small changes. like allowing skarner to cast E while still moving, and doing number tweaks before doing anything drastic

this is what bugs me the most about this rework, he hasn't even received any minor buffs to see if it would help him, riot is just automatically fixing what isn't broken.
1) Yes, I have. It was boring as ****. I've also played against AP Skarners and watched them get destroyed. A wrecking ball with less range that Lissandra isn't worth much.

2) Who the hell is changing his entire kit? Seriously, are you even reading Riot's posts, or just the ridiculous "make Skarner the dude from DotA" posts? His W is the exact same, only better. His R is the exact same, only better. His Q is the exact same skill, only minus the slow for a staking attack speed. The only skill that's actually changing is the E.

3) This is a rework. He needs one. You are acting like it's a complete redesign. It isn't. Out of all his skills + passive, one skill is being drastically changed. One. You want him to get buffs? Fine, perma-slow has to go. Skarner can not be allowed to be good as long as he has the capability to destroy anyone throughout lanning phase with next to no options.


Skarner was and is billed as a jungler. Lane Skarner was an emergent build path, same thing as AP Yi. If Riot can preserve that for you guys, cool. I'm fine with that. I hate lane Skarner, so what. What I'm not fine with is Skarner withering away in obscurity because someone can't let go of a build or kit that's strangling the champion's opportunity. That's not okay.


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Ensign

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Moving the slow off the Q and replacing it with an attack speed boost is a pretty massive change, but I can see it working. It will need some pretty substantial buffs to it to make up for the loss of repeatable AoE CC in team fights, but I think this direction has promise.

I really don't like the concept of a ramp-up speed boost on the shield; it makes him easier to kite, makes it harder to use it to engage, and pushes a lot of its power into the back end of the shield that will very often break. I don't see how backloading the speed boost makes for more interesting game play.

Moving the slow onto the E makes sense. The way it's being described now seems needlessly complicated; what's the value of marking a bunch of targets behind the guy you hit? Why do I have to hold a Q for immediately after this hits to get value?

More to the point, what about this design is superior to an attack reset that damages and slows in a cone behind your target?


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MajorPain9

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flana Scarlet View Post
1) Yes, I have. It was boring as ****. I've also played against AP Skarners and watched them get destroyed. A wrecking ball with less range that Lissandra isn't worth much.

2) Who the hell is changing his entire kit? Seriously, are you even reading Riot's posts, or just the ridiculous "make Skarner the dude from DotA" posts? His W is the exact same, only better. His R is the exact same, only better. His Q is the exact same skill, only minus the slow for a staking attack speed. The only skill that's actually changing is the E.

3) This is a rework. He needs one. You are acting like it's a complete redesign. It isn't. Out of all his skills + passive, one skill is being drastically changed. One. You want him to get buffs? Fine, perma-slow has to go. Skarner can not be allowed to be good as long as he has the capability to destroy anyone throughout lanning phase with next to no options.


Skarner was and is billed as a jungler. Lane Skarner was an emergent build path, same thing as AP Yi. If Riot can preserve that for you guys, cool. I'm fine with that. I hate lane Skarner, so what. What I'm not fine with is Skarner withering away in obscurity because someone can't let go of a build or kit that's strangling the champion's opportunity. That's not okay.

Last time I checked Skarner was Good and not OP with his perma slow in S2. He was picked a lot but also had a lot of ways to counter him.

He doesn't need an entire rework to make him viable again.
Main problems this season were:

The Nerf to AOE Jungle.

The increase to his W CD.

The nerf to his Ult.

Remaking his entire kit and changing him into an entirely different play style isn't necessary to fix what is wrong with him in this current meta.


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GRIMThousandEyes

Member

07-30-2013

As someone who mained Skarner all the way up to 30 almost 2 years ago. I love him so much and he holds an extremely dear place in my heart.

He's the first champ I really started to play and do well with and his playstyle is incredibly fun. I'm gonna answer the questions and then go into what I think would be great to see for my favorite crystal scorpion

• What are the most fun aspects of playing Skarner?

The ult is obvious here so I'll talk about something else for some new info.

I love the ability to stick on people and not let them get off me, it isn't easy to get on someone without your ult and good positioning, but once you do it's so satisfying to watch them squirm and try and run away when they can't because they're permaslowed


• What are the most frustrating/unfun aspects of playing Skarner?

MANA, I always am oom playing Skarner to the point where if I want to play him I need to ask my mid to go someone who doesn't need blue as much. I started to think about buying chalice and going into a crucible. It's that bad.

Also, itemization S3 has really hit him hard along with the jungle changes to focus more on single target clears. Skarner is a resist tank that builds attack speed for his passive, so I've got Wit's End to work with and that's about it. Trinity just isn't worth it anymore and that was SO critical on him

• What are the most frustrating aspects of playing against Skarner?

At this point in time there really isn't much he just gets outclassed by anyone with mobility and everyone can get away before he can do a thing

• Are there champions that do Skarner’s job better than he does? Why?

Absolutely single target lockdown is on a decent amount of champs, and while they can't move the enemy to the team, they CAN move to the enemy and lock them down and have the team follow up.

Champs that come to mind are (not limiting this to jung because I'm talking about lockdown):
Leona
J4
Blitz
Elise
Thresh
Rammus

These champs all have much better gap closers and still can lock the enemy down.

/answers

Now the rest is me just talking about what I'd like to see, so feel free to disregard this if you'd like.

Skarner to me doesn't need a terribly large amount of changes like Xerath and Karma have received. He's still a fun champ and has style is clear and purposeful.

The Skarner I know has 3 major things:

Single-Target Lockdown
Fast Clear Times
Sticking Power

I'll go over each ability and what changes I think would be cool to see and such
Q: Bread and butter skill so simple and effective at what it can do.I think the idea behind this ability is completely solid and doesn't need changed, however the changes to S3 jung have left his clear time abysmal.

Proposed change: tbh I'm not really sure about this one, best thing I could think of was increasing the damage towards non-champ targets
W: Skarner's stat steroid. I really enjoy the counterplay built in to this with the buff being lost after he loses the shield, but the issue is he loses this shield too quickly unless you build some AP on it, which then leaves you less tanky because you're spending money on what SHOULD be damage

Proposed Changes: Either buff the base numbers on the shield so it can last without AP stacking or add a passive to the skill that increases move and attack speed and maybe doubles this or something similar when shield is up/
E: This is the skill no one likes and honestly I don't hate it too much. It DOES feel a bit weird and awkward. however I've found with a sheen and some lifesteal and attk speed you can spam this and stay pretty well sustained, It could definitely use some changes though, but it doesn't need scrapped.

Proposed Changes: Allow the mark to be consumed multiple times or have basic attacks re-apply the mark to be consumed more than once. This allows it to not need to be spammed and gives it more of a purpose after its initial use it'll also help keep mana costs down

Also removing cast time on it would be nice as both of these changes would enhance Skarner's ability to stick on people.
R: Do I even need to say anything? This is Skarner, feel his sting.

Proposed Changes: The one thing I think that completely stopped me playing Skarner was the "bug fix" that stopped the ult from working if someone got out of cast range. I loved making those plays where you got someone just as they were getting away and pulling them back in.

This fix though seemed to flip the whole situation, and a lot f times it felt like I was getting screwed out of grabs I definitely should've had, maybe it's karma for ever grab I got that I shouldn't have but it sucks :/

Much needed edge checking should be done for this better ability to determine success for this skill is crucial.


Like I said Skarner is known for 3 things and he doesn't really have any of those right now.

Scruffy I put my loveable lonely scorpion in your capable hands.

He's a diamond in the rough...A crystal in the scar


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l1ghtn1ngt4m3r

Senior Member

07-30-2013

Are you still keeping the passive? I don't care either way, what you are doing to his q/w/e looks really good at the moment, but i have heard other rioters saying the reason Skarners abilities are so **** is because they have such a deceptively lower cooldown thanks to his passive.

Have you considered changing it to something like: Every time skarner casts an ability, he gains a stack of passive increasing his movement speed by 1% and slow resist by 2% - stacks up to 10 times, stacks last for 3 seconds.

I would much prefer you to rework the passive than take power out of his q/w/e/r, because its something that you don't notice at all.

Secondly, is there a chance of the Q second cast (or 2/3rd with the attack speed modification) to have a longer uptime? I always hate the fact that if you miss your second Q you have to wait another 7 seconds before you can get a slow off again. Something more forgiving would be appreciated.