Trundle Good, Bad or Just Ugly?

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Pyronymer

Senior Member

12-07-2010

His pillar alone is so insanely powerful it is ridiculous.

He is a generally strong tanky DPS and he has really nice utility AoEs that are insanely large and potent.

On the whole he is only slightly too good but he is incredibly bad for the game since Riot has recently identified three areas that are problematic and Trundle, their new champion during the period they identified these problems, is problematic in how strong he is in all three areas.

1) Jungling, Riot apparently doesn't like it... Trundle is a top jungler...

2) AoE stacking teams, especially tanky ones. Trundle is tanky, Trundle has big AoEs. His AoEs stack REALLY nicely. Heck between his Armour/MR debuff and his pillar he has more AoE team fight disruption AND more defence debuff than Amumu. AND IS MORE TANKY THAN AMUMU.

3) Tanky DPS... and Trundle is tanky, very tanky... but still has strong DPS...

So effectively riot said "here are three things we need to fix, and here is a new champion that will need nerfing in all three fields before we can fix them".


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Sykomyke

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyronymer View Post
His pillar alone is so insanely powerful it is ridiculous.

He is a generally strong tanky DPS and he has really nice utility AoEs that are insanely large and potent.

On the whole he is only slightly too good but he is incredibly bad for the game since Riot has recently identified three areas that are problematic and Trundle, their new champion during the period they identified these problems, is problematic in how strong he is in all three areas.

1) Jungling, Riot apparently doesn't like it... Trundle is a top jungler...

2) AoE stacking teams, especially tanky ones. Trundle is tanky, Trundle has big AoEs. His AoEs stack REALLY nicely. Heck between his Armour/MR debuff and his pillar he has more AoE team fight disruption AND more defence debuff than Amumu. AND IS MORE TANKY THAN AMUMU.

3) Tanky DPS... and Trundle is tanky, very tanky... but still has strong DPS...

So effectively riot said "here are three things we need to fix, and here is a new champion that will need nerfing in all three fields before we can fix them".
You should *really* think about what you are posting before you click Submit Reply, as you look silly talking out of your @ss.

1)Riot does not hate jungling, they are nerfing a few junglers who the feel are overpowered in their ganking presence as well as jungling. Jungling is supposed to be a trade-off, (Extra solo versus lane presence).

2)AoE meta-teams that you were referring to are actually DPS AoE's (Like Mumu's Ult, Galio's Ult, Garen's Spin-to-Win. Pillar does...*No damage*. Contaminate does...*No Damage* they are debuffs/buffs (respectively)

3)Trundle is tanky, but only if you build him as such. Tanky DPS (Which is what Morello was referring to) was the fact that there are certain heroes out there that can build *NO DAMAGE* items (i.e. All tanky items) and still be a threat.


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Pyronymer

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykomyke View Post
You should *really* think about what you are posting before you click Submit Reply, as you look silly talking out of your @ss.
Sounds like excellent advice and I think you should listen to yourself more.

1) Trundle is a good jungler and particularly excels at the emerge from jungle and gank a lane role, thanks in large part to his significant speed and his HUGE AoE slow/block. He is far more effective at that aspect of his role than, say, warwick. So your argument about lane presence of junglers and trade offs in no way addresses the fact that Trundle is actually directly COUNTER to even THAT jungling related goal stated by Riot, and by YOU.

2) Er, no the AoE meta relies heavily on AoE stuns and taunts, the damage and any available AoE damage is stacked on top of THAT. Amumu is there for his AoE Stun, Galieo is there for his AoE Taunt, So is Rammus. Sure, bring some AoE damage to the party as well. But it is the AoE CCs that trap the enemy team in the AoE and direct attack damage areas, and Trundle is absolutely insane at trapping, disrupting and preventing the escape of entire teams with his pillar, then he can also zone control a giant area and debuff and significantly damage one champion at a time within the great AoE mess while being largely invulnerable himself as a tanky DPS.

3) Trundle CAN build no damage items and still be a threat, AND he can build no tanky items and still be tanky! He can build both and be pretty **** scary too. The whole manipulation and stealing of defense and damage stats pretty much ensures those capabilities. But even if he didn't have the ability to tank AND deal damage (which he easily does) he would still have the ability to Tank, Jungle, Gank and AoE stack Pillar. And THAT would be enough to make him far too great of a threat for a mere tanky mc tank pants.


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Klaste

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12-08-2010

You seem to be under the impression that Trundle's W is an AOE that applies to the AOE stacking metagame. The thing is.. it only applies to himself. It no more applies than garen's self-targeted armor buff, or singed's ult.

So, the AOE slow is it, then? It fills exactly the same role that Singed's goo fills, and I don't hear anyone screaming OP on that. The goo brings people to a near stop. And it last's longer than the pillar.

Just.. calm down, stop freaking out about a champion with no hard CCs. And his damage output when built tanky is roughly equal to Nasus.


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Pyronymer

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Its a slow and a wall, and you are now not just ignoring facts but making up crazy claims about what I "apparently believe".

You are basically making up strawmen and lying in order to support some sort of wish fulfillment argument where trundle is not directly the opposite of the design direction Riot has public ally stated it intends to go in.

I'm sorry but Trundle is a moderate to strong champion, and since he is moderate to strong specifically in the areas Riot says needs to be weaker he is therefore strong in an OP game breaking manner, and in order to fix those areas riot WILL have to nerf him directly or indirectly.

If I were a player interested in playing a disgusting and offensive champion concept like a troll I would not be getting too settled with Trundle any time soon. Expect a kicking in the nuts from riot several patches down the road.


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ReBorNKiLLeR

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12-08-2010

I personally think that his Passive's needs a small buff if anything... 6%, even after having a 5v5 teamfight and getting the ace would only heal you for about 800 or so considering that their team is about all around 2000 hp with the exception of the tank :/


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Pyronymer

Senior Member

12-08-2010

While you would need to be careful with the passive by Riots apparent intentions at least there is no reason THAT could'nt get a buff, it's not part of the three things they are "working on" right now the way the rest of Trundle is.

Edit: unless they didn't like it's jungling implications I suppose, but still its the pillar that makes that problematic, apparently...


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Yellow Jester

Senior Member

12-08-2010

trundle is a support DPS. He has trouble getting kills but he doesn't have any trouble getting assists, he's really hard to kill, and his W is ridicustrong.


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Klaste

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12-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyronymer View Post
Its a slow and a wall, and you are now not just ignoring facts but making up crazy claims about what I "apparently believe".

You are basically making up strawmen and lying in order to support some sort of wish fulfillment argument where trundle is not directly the opposite of the design direction Riot has public ally stated it intends to go in.

I'm sorry but Trundle is a moderate to strong champion, and since he is moderate to strong specifically in the areas Riot says needs to be weaker he is therefore strong in an OP game breaking manner, and in order to fix those areas riot WILL have to nerf him directly or indirectly.

If I were a player interested in playing a disgusting and offensive champion concept like a troll I would not be getting too settled with Trundle any time soon. Expect a kicking in the nuts from riot several patches down the road.
It's just that, even in the metagame you are describing, with stacking AOE ults/disables gets exponentially more powerful for each champion in the mix, Trundle doesn't expound the problem. He would have to be extremely lucky or skilled in order to place his pillar in such a way as to make other champions' ults more effective on multiple enemy champions. At best he will prevent one or two champions from escaping the vicinity, at worst he will actually push them out of the AOE with the wall portion of it. And the way you were talking, you seemed to imply that his W was an issue as well, in spite of the fact that the only person effected by it is the person who used it. Basically a much larger shroud with different stats.

As far as the tanky DPS portion, he's closer to singed than to garen or xin zhou. Built pure tank, he will bring some damage to the table, maybe get a few kills on his own via sheer durability and slows/map control, but he's not going to be dealing Garen-level damage. He's called tanky DPS mostly because the best builds for him are hybrid tank/dps. I suppose, however, that Xin Zhou doesn't build pure tank either. But the only nerfs I could see coming Xin's way are to his ult, for the whole AOE Ult metagame problem already discussed.


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Pyronymer

Senior Member

12-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaste View Post
Trundle doesn't expound the problem. He would have to be extremely lucky or skilled in order to place his pillar in such a way as to make other champions' ults more effective on multiple enemy champions. At best he will prevent one or two champions from escaping the vicinity, at worst he will actually push them out of the AOE with the wall portion of it.
I call shenanigans on that entire post based on that statement.

You can't place an effect THAT big, at a rather LONG range, that lasts THAT long in a helpful way?

Whats it like at ELO -50 ?