Tanky DPS metagame...

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PreNerfXin

Senior Member

11-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think the unfortunate thing here is that people keep thinking Madred's is the anti-tank item.

Beating tanks means go Last Whisper with heavy physical items like Infinity Edge. Also the biggest thing about beating tanks is actually last hitting as a carry. You must get ahead of their level curve with your item pacing. The simple fact is that tanky champions scale with level while DPS champions scale with items. Because it's fairly difficult to prevent players from leveling, it's on the individual skill of the player to maximize their own gold income.
Then undo the nerf on Last Whisper.


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Picklesnshakes

Member

11-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think the unfortunate thing here is that people keep thinking Madred's is the anti-tank item.

Beating tanks means go Last Whisper with heavy physical items like Infinity Edge. Also the biggest thing about beating tanks is actually last hitting as a carry. You must get ahead of their level curve with your item pacing. The simple fact is that tanky champions scale with level while DPS champions scale with items. Because it's fairly difficult to prevent players from leveling, it's on the individual skill of the player to maximize their own gold income.
You bring up good points, but you still don't address the problem posed by introducing another Tanky DPS to the Tanky DPS metagame. Between Amumu, Malphite, Garen, Morde, Gragas, Vlad, Olaf, Cho, Shen and Xin, we already face enough champions that require us to build in the same way.

What a lot of people don't take into account is that in blind pick mode, players take into consideration the current metagame. There's an overabundance of players picking the strong Tanky DPS champions and their direct counters, leaving champions like Annie, Kat, Alistar (who can't do the DPS part), and others in the dust. Even casters suffer, it's bad enough without Trundle in the mix.

What gives?


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H2O Rip

Member

11-30-2010

Pickle does bring up a good point, but it also makes one thing about the difficulty in balancing for what essentially comes down to pretty different games. Blind pick is basically a separate game than knowing what champs the other team has and choosing to counter. Much like 5v5 and solo queue are very different - and 3v3 is of course nothing like 5v5. What may help balance one type of game / play / mode could very well hinder another. And that's not even taking into account overall play style of low vs high elo.

I think a lot of people underestimate the complexities of balancing. That said, i'm not terribly excited to see the increase of tanky DPS picks that will no doubt come - but if its a problem i'm sure Riot will make some adjustments. Worst case scenario we have to go outside and see the sun for a while while the meta shifts away from tanky dps.


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AkariKamigishi

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Senior Member

11-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think the unfortunate thing here is that people keep thinking Madred's is the anti-tank item.

Beating tanks means go Last Whisper with heavy physical items like Infinity Edge. Also the biggest thing about beating tanks is actually last hitting as a carry. You must get ahead of their level curve with your item pacing. The simple fact is that tanky champions scale with level while DPS champions scale with items. Because it's fairly difficult to prevent players from leveling, it's on the individual skill of the player to maximize their own gold income.
If they are not ******ed most of them will get thornmail.


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AeonMax

Senior Member

11-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak View Post
I think the unfortunate thing here is that people keep thinking Madred's is the anti-tank item.

Beating tanks means go Last Whisper with heavy physical items like Infinity Edge. Also the biggest thing about beating tanks is actually last hitting as a carry. You must get ahead of their level curve with your item pacing. The simple fact is that tanky champions scale with level while DPS champions scale with items. Because it's fairly difficult to prevent players from leveling, it's on the individual skill of the player to maximize their own gold income.
I think it's unfortunate that people keep thinking ranged DPS is why melee DPS is a poor choice. Tanks with strong DPS make melee DPS a poor choice as well. If anything, ranged DPS was the counter to these battle tanks.

That said, I'm fine with toning down ranged DPS, but you're going to have to do something about these Tanks as well.


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Yellow Jester

Senior Member

11-30-2010

it's really funny how the AoE meta only countered ranged DPS. Tanky DPS champs were fine against AoE because most of them bought CC reduction like banshee's veil and merc treads ANYWAY, so AoE comps were totally hosed VS tanky DPS comps. Ranged DPS is countered by AoE because AoE usually involves 3 or 4 mages getting in your face and dealing untold horror to your 30 magic resist ass


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Groxo

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Senior Member

11-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razeluxe View Post
Tanky metagame only exists in low elo. All mid to high elo games where the people have a brain revolve around the carries, Corki, MF, Ashe, Trist, Kog, and Twitch. Ranged champs deserved every nerf they got, and as Riot eluded to will probably need more (cough nerf IE cough).
You're lying. On my second acount tanky dps meta exist as high as 1700 elo. Ranked.
IE nerf? Wtf? Go back to mashing your face aganist the keyboard with Garen.


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SirNeb

Member

11-30-2010

I don't understand Phreak's statement how madred's br is not an anti-tank item. Yes, IE + Last Whisper is a great alternative and it is probably just as good for like 2k more gold to break tanks, but to say we are wrong that Bloodrazer is NOT an anti-tank item is just incorrect, no? I'm not saying IE + LW is not better, I believe it is because the combo gives great DPS against squishies too and generally just IE is enough for raping tanks mid game. But that said, if there are 3+ tanky champs on the other team, I'd always go BR as a ranged ad carry.


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FreeToSpeak

Senior Member

11-30-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirNeb View Post
I don't understand Phreak's statement how madred's br is not an anti-tank item. Yes, IE + Last Whisper is a great alternative and it is probably just as good for like 2k more gold to break tanks, but to say we are wrong that Bloodrazer is NOT an anti-tank item is just incorrect, no? I'm not saying IE + LW is not better, I believe it is because the combo gives great DPS against squishies too and generally just IE is enough for raping tanks mid game. But that said, if there are 3+ tanky champs on the other team, I'd always go BR as a ranged ad carry.

He never said it wasn't. He said it wasn't THE one. IE + LW are.


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SuperGinger

Senior Member

11-30-2010

it depends what they are buying, i think malady and bloodrazor could be effective as well

who is on your team? what items are the tanks buying?