65% healing Redux is too much!

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Maleagant

Senior Member

12-16-2009

Please reduce the healing redux on items (and skills) back down to 40% or cut the duration of the debuffs in half its just too much as it currently stands.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

12-16-2009

Its a counter to lifesteal, Heal spell, and healing champion stacked teams.

It needs to be that strong, or like previously, it is rather worthless. In fact it could probably use another 5% bump right now.


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-16-2009

I totally disagree with you, Echo. Mundo is my favorite champion and a single solitary hero with a healing reduction attack or an Executioner's Calling completely shuts down my hero.

40% was already enough to counter anyone that did lifestealing (Nasus with a Bloodthirster maxed out would still regain some HP through that, but barring buying multiple lifesteal items, it pretty much would negate the lifesteal anyone would get). People who heal are completely not viable in the least right now because of the extreme effects that healing reduction items bring. How often do you see Soraka or Taric now? I hardly ever see them, ever, because they only have two moves apiece that actually do anything.

I think there needs to be a balance between these attacks and items nerfing life regen/lifesteal/healing and still letting those characters be viable.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

12-16-2009

They can still heal past the debuffs rather easily. The problem, and reason, for the debuffs to be increased is the fact that there were so many champions with lifesteal, regeneration, and heal abilities able to just ignore all but the heaviest burst damage.


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Maleagant

Senior Member

12-16-2009

No one really comes close to Nasus on Lifesteal. Passive at 18 is 20% and while I suppose you could just stack lifesteal items...... that is hardly a viable way to play him. My current item/rune build on leaguecraft

http://www.leaguecraft.com/builder/N...57ed864f591cc4

45% Lifesteal IF I've killed 40 minions/champs since I died last.

23.24 passive hp regen per second after killing 125 minions, 13 champions or some combination there of.

1.799 attacks per second.

316 damage per attack (again dependent on having Blodthirster maxed).

Giving me 568.5 damage/second.

Which means I have a lifesteal/second of 256.

Combined with my 23.24 passive regen each second that totals 279.25 sounds like a lot.

It is 7.25% of my total 3855 hp.

After getting hit by Ashe with an Exe's Calling (which costs a piddling 1600g). That becomes 90 on the lifesteal and 8 on the passive regen. Totaling 98 or 2.5% of my total life, suddenly my champion who is not stacking armor, not stacking MR, not stacking HP, but depending on being able to regen 8% of his life each second assuming he can get within melee range of Ashe (HAHA) is dead even if he does catch her in a team fight.

Additionally the heal spell base 140 + 20xlevel so at 18 its 500 massive hp (less than a crit from Tryndamere, or even most champs at 18) is now healing for 175...... roughly what it healed for at level 2..... DANGEROUS!

There is a simple way to deal with Nasus, Mundo, and any other champion which is hard to kill due to passive regens, its called Focus Fire..... everyone knows that I get focused in nearly every game I play, prior to the buff to healing redux it was ok, I was killable but if people ****ed up or I got a lucky crit or two I might be able to take someone with me. Now it is simple a matter of

1. Someone get an Executioner's Calling (its a good item for the cost anyway)
2. Find Nasus
3. /HAHA
4. ............
5. Profit

It doesn't even take focus fire now with a 12 second duration any ranged champ with any kind of disable can handle Nasus even if he gets in melee range if they are decent, have the healing redux, and cleanse. Most melee are going to out dps me enough that they will win too with the healing redux.


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OctopusDropkick

Senior Member

12-16-2009

I agree that the healing debuff is too high. You don't see that kind of debuffing anywhere in the game -- it's usually at 40%.

My suggestion is that they reduce it back to 40%, but change the passive. Get rid of the DoT and add something that helps to fill out it's role.

The problem with group healing is that the team has to be sure to focus on a single target at a time to make sure they get kills. The damage over time on E. Calling needs to be changed to something that aids in calling primary targets. Give E. Calling the Malady ability, which makes focus fire way more effective. Give the DoT to Malady.


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mermin

Senior Member

12-16-2009

50% with shorter duration imo


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Dagna

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Senior Member

12-17-2009

I think it is nearly balanced, considering how OP the Soraka/Taric/Alistar triad was before. Though I do believe it should only affect direct healing fully and regen effects by 50%. This should fix the Mundo nerf from one item.


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Vaaz

Senior Member

12-17-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagna View Post
I think it is nearly balanced, considering how OP the Soraka/Taric/Alistar triad was before. Though I do believe it should only affect direct healing fully and regen effects by 50%. This should fix the Mundo nerf from one item.
So you believe that it is far to justify that the item is balanced to counter 3 healer teams? What about a normal, balanced team with 1 healer. That one healer is now rather worthless.

It brings a 300 heal down to 105, thats outrageous.

All other stacking counters are 40% Armor (Last Wisper) magic armor (voidstaff) Why should healing be any diffrent.

Current heal values - 65% reduction - 40% reduction

Taric 270 - 94.5 - 162
Sora 300 - 105 - 180
Ali 150 - 52.5 - 90

Can you really say that healing with that debuff is balanced? 52....with a maxed roar, thats pitiful, less than, or slightly above 100 for the other 2 single target heals, pathetic.

In its current form, it completly ruins healers. The tri healer run up might be powerful, but an executioners calling, in its current form(dot damage, duration) with a 40% healing reduction is a fair counter to the problem. the 65% is complete overkill.


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Dagna

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Senior Member

12-17-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaaz View Post
So you believe that it is far to justify that the item is balanced to counter 3 healer teams? What about a normal, balanced team with 1 healer. That one healer is now rather worthless.
It is not worth getting to offset one healer. That's just bad play. If a team does stack it for just one healer (or if every champ on your team has Heal) then change your build. Taric, Soraka, Alistar all have very good builds that are not healing based. Normally you will see an executioners calling early as it is cheap. One champ having will it not nerf your healing into the ground if you focus as a team. I have never gotten a Executioners calling just because the opposing team has 1 healer. It is a waste and just easier to dps through the heal. I will say though, I will get one to counter Mundo currently (if the team is ahead or Mundo is fed).

But since apparently you have seen this, I will propose a solution.

Executioners Calling:
18% Lifesteal
15% Critical
Unique Passive:
Adds 20% reduction to healing to the target. Effect can Stack up to 3 times. Stacks must come from different sources.

To counter a healer now at nearly the same % would now require 3 champs each having a Executioners Calling and for some form of a team being able to work together.

There is a reason it got buffed, simply it was to weak as it was before. The problem with balancing this item is simple. Too litlte reduction and multi heals teams can still heal through it, too much and a single healer become usless


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