A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Breakstar

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Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
...Rengar gains X movement speed while not visible to the enemy team...
I think this is a cool idea, and it should be a lot of fun, but I think that this iteration would actually be a huge problem in terms of scouting. This passive would allow the Rengar player to trivially locate wards by watching the buff bar or his movespeed - if he nears a bush and it slows him down, then the bush is warded. Even if there's a delay or some other effect to muddy the information, I think this is a problem the way Kha'zix's passive isn't.

While 'knowing wards see him' could potentially be a valid champion ability, I don't think it feels like Rengar or really encourages any positive gameplay.

Edit because doubleposting is tacky: Kha'zix's 'I'm unseen!' passive isn't a problem because you can only 'spend' his passive on champions, so you can't easily get to a potentially-warded area before the passive is refreshed.

Double edit because tripleposting is doubletacky: Does this 'Q chain' mechanic make any empowered non-Q spell useless? I like the new gameplay of the Q chain, but it seems like saving up Ferocity stacks for more Q chains would always be more important than the root or the heal. If Ferocity fell off with time (like Rage), the amount of Ferocity at the end of the chain wouldn't be as important, but since Ferocity never falls off without use, it seems like empowered W and E are not comparable options.


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Coldmanj

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
some of you guys have suggested a Wukong-like 'Less defense, but stacking with nearby targets' and i'd like to try it and see how it goes.
great potential with this idea. definitely keeps him from getting to tanky solo fighting but help keep him alive in the team fight. not sure having it stack off of champs damaged by the roar will be the best trigger though, perhaps making it have a range check on cast for the bonus defenses while keeping the damage area smaller would be the best way to go, if that makes any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
EDIT BECAUSE DOUBLEPOSTING IS TACKY -


Catching this before i leave - i think something like this sounds really cool. I know i mentioned earlier that we were looking at +MS% in brush. What do people think about similar version?

'Rengar gains X movement speed while not visible to the enemy team (or out of combat). This bonus is doubled while Rengar is in brush.' ?
interesting perhaps but the interaction with wards might be a bit to advantageous for rengar and his team. I mean that he will know if an area is warded because he will suddenly move slower. It would have to be an out of combat effect to make sure that rengar doesnt get to unbalanced with what i just mentioned. The bigger issue i see though is that there are champs with similar movement speed effects as their passive already, MF with strut and Nidalee with Prowl. Giving Rengar Both of these bonuses will lessen the value of the girls passives and make them feel like cheap knockoffs IMO.


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Furi Kuri

Member

07-18-2013

This is what I see happening Rengar can triple Q, and it will be OP. Riot nerfs Q, and the only way to damage with him is triple Q all the time.

If you were truly listening to us you wouldn't rework him. Every hour you get more and more downvotes.

I guess all Rengar players left this thread.


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XL fenomenon

Junior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gypsy Hyena View Post
I'm looking forward to these changes. Pushing him into the jungle role and giving him more depth as an assassin will hopefully stop him being played as a worse Yorick clone with a finisher, because that's incredibly boring. People are worried about the range for the ult's detection radius, but I don't see it as a huge problem - you can walk to the river bush like everyone else, then when you activate it you'll be able to jump on an enemy long before they can hide under the tower trying to stay safe til it wears off.
This guy man, Rengar is no where near Yorick in similarities...
I would really like people who don't play rengar to stop posting these aggravating uneducated comments on this forum. I'm already insanely frustrated that riot is changing Rengar, i don't need these people adding to that with their stupidity.

On another note, everyone who says they are looking forward to these changes doesn't play much rengar. Being an assassin with a SURPRISE factor truly makes him a unique champ. Yes i had my moments of A WILD RENGAR APPEARS AND ITS SUPER EFFECTIVE on me but thats what makes him extremely fun. Taking away that really hits hard to what he is all about and what makes him so much fun to play.

Now this chaining abilities together... it might be a cool idea but in order to get all those chains, time has to be used and time is what Rengar does not have. Besides those changes would make him incredibly obnoxious in lane.


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A Master Shaco

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Tbh, I'm scared that I'll see people doing Triple empowered Q's and a normal Q almost instantly...

For those who don't know, You can charge stacks, Use empowered Q > Ult > Save up enough ferocity from ultimate that you have 5 when you land, Jump on someone, hit two empowered Q's.

I'm scared how this is going to affect new Rengar, even more so.
He'd be able to have up to 3 empowered Q's in a short time period:
Empowered Q > Ult > Empowered Q > E+W>Empowered Q > Q. If you're telling me that's not going to one shot someone....


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Tsuusetsu

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Q train sounds cool, I hope its damage isnt reduced to much.



Read red! - As For bola skillshots, as long as it has greater range then what it does now id love for it to be a skillshot. In addition, bolas are used to capture fleeing prey. So what if just like tryn's shout, if the target is facing the opposite direction, it instead roots the target instead of slowing? Would be a neat addition to Rengar. Make you feel like your really hunting them.


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FineyLeee

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!
I am one of those who definitely thinks Rengar belongs in the jungle, and not the top lane. The Bola strike being a skill shot might emphasize this, as last hitting with it will be way harder now that other minions can block it. So I think it's a good change.

And to further emphasize Rengar's jungle play, has it been considered to build BTN off of Madred's? It feels like Madred's is a pretty critical item on jungle Rengar anyway, and it'd be a nerf to not have it in the core build. Besides, a machete is very cheap, so it would probably not prevent Lanegar from picking it up anyway...


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C13Magnum

Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wav3Break View Post
Just to buffer Scarizard's post, I am currently tuning the new "Q-Train" destroyer knife cat damage window and I'm not gonna lie, this thing feels freaking awesome to pull off. You will knife more than you ever could and stab peoples faces like no tomorrow. Now time to balance and test it more :P. Again everything is subject to change.

I would also like to ask some questions:

How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?

How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?

P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

Continue to give us great ideas guys we will continue to iterate and try our best to make sure Rengar becomes an awesome and healthy character!
I suppose by larger window you mean a longer time to mash buttons, but not particularly a longer time to stay alive or actually be on the target. It's probably been voiced multiple times in this thread, but all-in assassins (pantheon, nocturne) always suffer late game if built for damage, as their survivability doesn't scale well enough in to team fights for them to successfully do their job. Meanwhile, highly mobile assassins (zed, kha'zix) are extremely viable, even late, due to their ability to disengage and re-engage. I think rengar should be pushed more towards mobility rather than all-in.

Bola strike as a skill shot is great, but would you still gain ferocity on a miss? Do you waste an empowered bonus if you miss it?

If it were a skill shot I imagine the range could be increased to the point of it being a great poking tool (and perhaps an empowered one even being a great way to pick a target, similar to a dark binding). That, alone, gives rengar far more team utility as he can set up a pick, then ult while his team initiates and perhaps even hunt a secondary target. Snare duration could also be dependent on distance so that duration is 1 second within 575 yards (exact same as now), but longer hits could last 2-3 seconds like a light/dark binding.


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TypeOPositive

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Hey Reds,
If you're listening - concerning his E :

- line skillshot (being a skillshot would justify increasing the slow duration)
- empowered E ( remove the stun, keep the slow BUT allow it to apply a debuff on the target that allows Rengar to automatically AA jump to it)

My 2 cents.

Bye!


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Vox Burakkuhoru

Senior Member

07-18-2013

Quote:
How would you guys feel about Bola Strike being a skill shot?
It depends if it can go through minions, because if minions are going to get in the way of my pray, I'm not going to like that. Also the width of the Bola's skillshot indicator hit box would have to be appropriate for the fact that it is a bola. By design the bola was a very easy to land weapon. I'd like this. It would set up for some good jungle strategy with the brushes if you could bola, put a sight marker on the thing hit, and leap to it.

Quote:
How would you guys feel about Empowered Bola Strike bringing a little bit more team utility?
People will QQ about that. However, having it prong out with like 3 bola's being flung outwards is kinda a cool idea. But if it's something like a sej ult, too strong.

Quote:
P.S. I think Bone Tooth is feeling pretty healthy building out of a Hunter's machete for all of you jungle Rangos out there .

I like this idea too, BUT, what's keeping me from selling it way late game? If, at say lv 18 and full stacks, you could go to the shop and transform it into a new item with better stats, that would be very nice.