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A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Manetceros

Senior Member

07-17-2013

I think making the necklace build from machete would be a great idea because Rengar's jungle seems to need more help than his top at the moment, although that might not be true after the changes anyway.


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Atomysk Rex

Junior Member

07-17-2013

The only issue I have with having Bonetooth Necklace come from Hunter's Machete is...

what if you wanna play top? At some point you have to build a useless Hunter's Machete, which is an obvious disadvantage in lane.


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Groxxy

Recruiter

07-17-2013

Quote:
Hollywood Cool:
Considering that Nasus' Q does full damage to towers to the point where, if sufficiently and obsessively stacked, will end a tower's life in two-three Qs, I don't think you can say Rengar's split pushing is broken. Also his tower damage isn't /that/ powerful with the initial Q (though it does damage), it's powerful when he does a double Q and the attack speed buff starts stacking, letting more damage power down onto the turret in seconds.

But honestly, the tower only goes down quickly if you leave him there to do it, which in the laning phase is pretty hard to do unless you're hardcore roaming.


Nasus is gated by his bad early game and having to farm . Rengar can do bad in lane and still split push with a Bork/+1 other ad item etc.


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Hyde from Darius

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Quote:
Scarizard:
So i lied earlier when i said i was going to get food - i've just been reading posts and trying to respond.

Had a good talk with OnlyRengar, got a couple of ideas as well as getting some from the thread. I'm going to Tenerife, Spain for a few days starting Thursday morning with a group of Rioters for the EU Pro Player Conference, but Wav3break will be here manning the thread and updating you on our iterations.

For those of you who don't like the changes, i still thank you for your feedback. I don't want to ruin Rengar. I just want him to be more healthy for the game as a whole with appropriate counterplay so that he can be a generally better experience for our game.

Gonna go grab that food now - i might poke around later on before i pass out. Thanks again for the feedback, friends.

If you rework Rengar as you say you're going to, please refund the cost of buying him/remove him from my account, as I bought the champion I loved, not your ****ty rework of something that is as close to perfectly balanced as possible.

I am very disappointed with Riot's ideas when it comes to my favorite champion, as I feel it will completely destroy Rengar's identity. I demand a refund when this goes through.


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Rastamon Ganja

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Scarizard how many games have you played with Rengar? How many ranked games? how many normal games?

I did a quick lolking and elophant search and lolking says you've played 10 ranked games while elophant says you've played 12 Ranked games with Rengar.

Sources:

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/3...2#ranked-stats (http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/34196252#ranked-stats)

http://direct.elophant.com/league-of-legends/summoner/na/34196252/ranked-champions (http://direct.elophant.com/league-of-legends/summoner/na/34196252/ranked-champions)

Why are you reworking rengar? Are you passionate about Rengar? Is he near and dear to your heart like he is to most people following this thread? Is he one of your favorite champs? What do you like about him?

Shouldn't someone who knows rengar, his abilities and game mechanics like the back of his hand and someone who is passionate and loves Rengar be in charge of the rework?

But i know Scarizard won't replay to this post because it is negative and criticizes him...

I normally don't post on the LoL forums but i love Rengar, he is unique, he has a unique feel and flavor (something that is missing in several champs/reworked champs), his kit is unique, he is an assassin/hunter with an awesome ulti. I have played him in many games where i assassinate someone and in chat the other person tells me how their heart almost stopped when Rengar jumped out of the bushes stealthed. They were not mad, did not rage, it gives both the player and the opponent a thrill, a rush when playing or facing Rengar. I just do not want Rengar to end up like Karma. A failed rework.


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Thiend

Junior Member

07-17-2013

Regarding Rengar's ability to get away after a kill, I would absolutely love it if you could cast his ultimate a second time upon killing someone to re-use the duration that hadn't expired when he jumped out of the stealth. Having him stealthily take down his prey and just as quietly exit the scene seems really cool and thematically relevant to me, instead of having him turn into a big fat target himself on the way out. Not sure of the balance implications there though.

Rengar DOES need a burst reduction I will admit, since assuming you're replacing the AS on his Q with something of similar function, he has far more sustain than most "assassin" champions. Given his lack of any real teamfight abilities however, he really needs something for teamfights if his burst won't be as high. Specifically, I suggest giving Battle Roar something to let him survive longer in teamfights or a component to really affect them. Maybe give it flat damage reduction both magical and physical that scales off the number of enemies hit, with minions counting for less? Just keeping the armor/MR but under that kind of scaling would probably also work.

I'd also like to note that his ultimate is currently comparable to Twitch's stealth. It just reveals enemy champions and gives a tad more movespeed instead of a huge AS boost. Given what you've said about increasing all that it currently does, I don't think this will be a problem, but keep it in mind.

On the counterplay side of things, if his ultimate is getting a shorter cooldown/longer duration/more speed, you could honestly make the warning radius a little larger than the 1000 you said before without any real effect, I think. A good portion of the time, he'll be moving too darn fast to avoid, and a warning won't really do anything to avail that without actual effort expended. On a reasonably short cooldown, it forcing someone to use Ghost or Flash to escape is a fair trade.

On the subject of Bonetooth Necklace, I'd love if it gave X% speed whenever Rengar wasn't within any enemy unit's LOS, as opposed to while he's in a bush. This would create an interesting parallel with Kha's passive, and also seems like it would be more functional to me - because Rengar can already leap from brush onto his targets, a % movespeed bonus in brush would only really see use while he was running away. That type of passive works for Nidalee, but she's also a ranged champion who spends a lot of time chucking spears out of bushes. Honestly, I prefer the current 25 flat speed bonus to either, but if it has to change I'm not a fan of the brush boost.

I also definitely like the idea of having Bonetooth build out of Machete. I'm not sure why anyone would complain about that - it makes jungle Rengar's life a little easier without really affecting his top lane build. To those who are getting mad about it: remember that 300g for a Machete + 400g for a Longsword + 100g combine cost = 800g... which is what Bonetooth currently costs on live anyway.


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Dr Niles Crane

Junior Member

07-17-2013

These are the changes to Rengar I would make. My formatting kinda sucks, so bear with me.

Rengar can be built as either assassin or tanky split pusher. Jungling has also been improved.

  • Stats
  • Base Health/Health per 5/ Health per level Increased.
  • Passive - Unseen Predator:
  • Original Passive Maintained
  • Rengar gains a stack of ferocity every 7/6/5 seconds when near an enemy champion and not in combat.
  • This cooldown is decreased by 2 seconds when standing in the brush.
  • These numbers are simply placeholders, but provide a general idea of what I'm thinking.
  • Savagery (Q)
  • Increase Base Damage and/or Scaling
  • Remove Ferocity Drain
  • Empowered Savagery
  • Increase Base Damage and/or Scaling
  • Remove Ferocity Drain
  • Battle Roar (W)
  • Damage scales off %Max Health.
  • No longer gives Armor/MR
  • Now gives a temporary shield based on %Max Health and level.
  • Adjusted Cooldown.
  • Empowered Battle Roar.
  • Unchanged
  • Bola Strike (E)
  • Slow increased at all levels (More at higher levels).
  • Base Damage/Scaling Reduction.
  • Possible Cooldown Adjustment (Reduction)
  • Empowered Bola Strike
  • Snare Duration Increased.
  • Thrill of the Hunt (R)
  • Maintains original stealth mechanic.
  • Cooldown decreased at later levels.
  • Rengar is visible to enemies (while in stealth) when they are within a very short range (ex: 100 Range, possibly less).
  • Rengar's Movement speed bonus is increased at all levels (more at higher levels). However, the bonus will not kick in until completey stealthed.
  • This spell will not notify enemies of its activation.
  • Leaping to a champion while active will apply Mark of the Pridestalker to that champion.
  • Mark of the Pridestalker- This unit takes 4/6/8 +(1% per 70 Bonus AD) increased damage from all sources for 4/5/6 seconds.

I have attached the word document with better formatting and additional notes I made about the design choices if you would prefer to read that.

Rengar Changes.docx

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ChocoKelly

Senior Member

07-17-2013

Up this thread continue Discussion, Any Red?


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The Ral Zarek

Junior Member

07-17-2013

Alright....since everyone is upset about the ultimate I propose this:
When rengar activates his ult he gets vision of a certain range, he had to choose a champion in this range as his prey..when he does this the enemy selected well have no vision of rengar...everyone else other the the selected target can see rengar if he passes by a ward or something..so the prey will have no vision they will not no he is coming..only way is if his teammates tell him...so when rengar ults no one will no...but since other team members can see him it is his counter


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phóbós

Member

07-17-2013

@Scarizard:

If you are going to give a global visible warning of Rengars Ultimate then you should also be doing the same for any champion who is in the bushes, any champion who has any form of stealth, any that can teleport or even champs with long jumps. All of these make players groan/swear/angry at them.

Rengar as he is can be played two ways via appropriate item choices. Assassin or Bruiser.

My question to you is: Does Rengar see any competitive play nowdays? I would like to think that the pro players have a better understanding of champions and mechanics than any of us and if they don't use him.. he's not on the "strong" list (Kha Zhix sees alot of competitive play - aim to make him an even competitor to this champion).

Can Kha Zhix, Talon, Zed, Twitch, Eve (even Poppy) nuke a player down in seconds? Yes. Should Rengar be able to if you build him so? YES. otherwise he fails at his job when he is built as an assassin.

Can he itemise to be a tanky dps? Yes. But then he cannot nuke opponents as hard as the assassins above.

If you are making him geared toward being an assassin you need to compare apples with apples and then create an apple. If you make him an assassin, make him be able to insta-nuke any squishy. Make him an even competitor to Kha Zhix.

I could give you suggestions on how I would modify Rengar but in all honesty I don't think you'd even read them. Ignore the negative tone of many of the people in this thread and if you rebuild him, build him to do his job as effectively as other assassins.

Good luck.