A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Troy242621

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
His true identity was never supposed to be an assassin though.

Just watch the video I linked. Was going to just repeat it all over again but I decided if you can't watch the vid then you prob wouldn't care what I'd have to say anyways and I'd have just wasted my time.

So watch the vid and learn why he's not supposed to be an assassin yet is stuck with that as his ONLY role, or don't watch it and forever be in the dark on who and what Rengar is supposed to be.

I know his original intended role, but a HUNTER stalks and assassinates their prey, not thwack them over the head sixty times until they finally drop from exhaustion. I think the assassin identity fits him better than any other. He's SUPPOSED to burst incredibly hard. That really is what a hunter would do, and it's CERTAINLY what a lion does.


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
I know his original intended role, but a HUNTER stalks and assassinates their prey, not thwack them over the head sixty times until they finally drop from exhaustion. I think the assassin identity fits him better than any other. He's SUPPOSED to burst incredibly hard. That really is what a hunter would do, and it's CERTAINLY what a lion does.
Lore wise maybe you're right, but his lore isn't what matters here and is not what's getting changed.

It's his kit, his kit was designed for a bruiser/fighter type champ and still is, yet due to the nerfs to EVERYTHING he now only has two things, the triple Q and stealth. Everything else is pretty inconsequential and can come from many other champs with stronger kits.

So I'm sorry if I don't really care if lion's in real life are supposed to "burst incredibly hard," I care more about his in game kit.

If it were to be changed to be more suited to an assassin then I'd be perfectly fine with that as well, it's just that atm he does not, so either change his stat numbers to more fit his original fighter role, or change everything to that of an assassins, and it appears as though Riot is trying to bring back the original Rengar they had wanted.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
Lore wise maybe you're right, but his lore isn't what matters here and is not what's getting changed.

It's his kit, his kit was designed for a bruiser/fighter type champ and still is, yet due to the nerfs to EVERYTHING he now only has two things, the triple Q and stealth. Everything else is pretty inconsequential and can come from many other champs with stronger kits.

So I'm sorry if I don't really care if lion's in real life are supposed to "burst incredibly hard," I care more about his in game kit.

If it were to be changed to be more suited to an assassin then I'd be perfectly fine with that as well, it's just that atm he does not, so either change his stat numbers to more fit his original fighter role, or change everything to that of an assassins, and it appears as though Riot is trying to bring back the original Rengar they had wanted.
His kit preforms perfectly well if he's built pure glass cannon, so evidently he HAS an assassin kit. Thematically and functionally, he's an assassin.


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Snowsef

Member

11-15-2013

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Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
I disagree completely. He's SUPPOSED TO BE an assassin, so naturally he does best at that. This is like complaining that Talon can't be a bruiser. Well of course it's not as good, he's designed around assassinating. Rengar is a hunter, not a knight in shining armor. He isn't supposed to take focus and survive. He works WONDERS in a pick comp, for example. He can pick anyone who's out of position then escape, plus he has lifesteal to be great at 1v1. He can also splitpush, as he is both excellent at 1v1, AND he can escape with his ultimate. He has plenty of viable roles, and the rework isn't necessary.
Thank you sir, I think we're on the same page. There are enough bruisers in this game anyway. Rengar should be kept as an assassin, since I think that's the way to get the most fun out of playing him.


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
His kit preforms perfectly well if he's built pure glass cannon, so evidently he HAS an assassin kit. Thematically and functionally, he's an assassin.
He does not have anything near an assassins kit, how can you even remotely think that?

His W is an AoE self mini buff that makes him slightly meatier.

His E is a single target slow, the worst on target slow in the game I might add, with very low damage.

His Q is a small steroid that doesn't do nearly enough damage on it's own, only becoming an assassin-like threat once built up and double/triple cast.

And finally his R is obviously designed as an initiation or chasing skill, not an escape or high damaging move itself.

SO now lets look at the kits of other champs, shall we?

Assassin champs like Zed, Fizz, Ahri, Le'Blanc, Kha'Zix, Evelynn, etc, have strong bursting abilities and high mobility through passives and abilities a like, and do not REQUIRE items to become a damage threat of some sort. They can jump in real quick, deal a lot of damage, and dodge back out. They do not have steroids, self buffs, or skills meant only for CC (they have some yes but they double as strong bursting skills as well, i.e. Fizz's ult, Kassadin's Silence, and Ahri's charm).

Now let's looks at tanky dps/bruiser/fighter type champs like Shen, Renekton, Jax, J4, Zac, etc. They have strong initiations, some sort of steroid to help them deal some damage, some sort of ability only meant for CC, and a self buff to help them tank. They can hard engage and get in real quick and then deal some damage and buff themselves to tank more damage, but they do not usually have any means of quick escape. They obviously have disengages, but not the same as a Zed's shadow, Ahri ult, or Fizz trickster.

And finally let's look at Rengar one more time and determine which kit he is more similar too. He has a small steroid that doubles as a burst skill, a small AoE self buff that makes him slightly tankier and helps him survive with heals, and a CCing ability solely meant for CCing, then an Ult meant for him to hard engage or chase down opponents after a fight.

THIS IS OBVIOUSLY MORE SIMILAR TO THOSE OF THE TANKS/BRUISERS! He was designed with a kit to hard engage and deal his burst damage then be able to survive until the end of the fight to chase down surviving targets, OBVIOUSLY! He is not built as an assassin cause he lacks more then ONE form of burst damage and does not have an escape or resets like ALL THE OTHER ASSASSINS!.

So yeah, he has insane burst damage, but that's due to how broken and poorly thought out the ferocity system was and is and the required nerfs and measure they had to take to limit it, leaving just one thing for Rengar; DOUBLE CASTING, the one thing that allows him to assassinate people.

FFS just watch the freakin video.......


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Troy242621

Senior Member

11-15-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
He does not have anything near an assassins kit, how can you even remotely think that?
Stealth to come out of nowhere, huge gapcloser, 200% scaling on Q with a 150% AS bonus if used with Ferocity, can triple Q, his ebola actually does SUBSTANTIAL damage especially considering it's CC,....Sounds like an assassination to me. Just which part of his kit ISN'T like an assassin's kit?


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ScubaDivingPoop

Senior Member

11-16-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicarious117 View Post
His E is a single target slow, the worst on target slow in the game I might add, with very low damage.

His Q is a small steroid that doesn't do nearly enough damage on it's own, only becoming an assassin-like threat once built up and double/triple cast.

FFS just watch the freakin video.......
If you double cast Bola(E) its damage is higher then double casting Savagery(Q) up until he has over 200 AD. So to say that his E has low damage do you even know what you're talking about.

Most of the games i play i dont even need to Triple Q, i can double cast it and it's enough to take down any squishy as long as i dont get CC'd. So i have no clue what you're even talking about when you say his Q doesnt do enough damage. The main reason they are nerfing and moving his Q damage into the so called "Q train" in the rework is because of how much raw burst he can do.

Also that video you keep telling people to watch. The guy ExamplePrime is Plat 5 and the video is months ago and outdated with many patch changes. Not to mention he barely even has 25 ranked games with rengar. I don't think he is qualified to make any type of statement for you to religiously and blindly follow.

But that aside please stop making pointless posts and bloating this tread with unnecessary arguments about what rengars so called "Attributes"should be. I would rather a red with information come in here and answer my jungle concerns for S4 rengar and not have him skip over my questions because the last 10 pages were about if rengar is an assassin or bruiser.


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Zerid

Senior Member

11-16-2013

Can't wait for rengar updates.


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devries5th

Junior Member

11-17-2013

Im kinda late this how rengar forum and i was looking at the comments and i am not exactly sure what the "Q Train" exactly is. Could someone describe it?


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Vicarious117

Senior Member

11-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy242621 View Post
Stealth to come out of nowhere, huge gapcloser, 200% scaling on Q with a 150% AS bonus if used with Ferocity, can triple Q, his ebola actually does SUBSTANTIAL damage especially considering it's CC,....Sounds like an assassination to me. Just which part of his kit ISN'T like an assassin's kit?
You're hopeless....

Watch the video, and cry after realizing how little you know.

I'd say record it cause it would be amusing, but I just really don't care what you have to say anymore, you're obviously stuck in your lack of knowledge and are never coming out of your bubble anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaDivingPoop View Post
Most of the games i play i dont even need to Triple Q,
AND LIKE THAT YOU'VE LOST ME!

If you're not triple Qing in game then you're not one shotting about 98% of the champs in this game, if played by a decent player ofc.

So I can't really take your opinion seriously if you expect em to believe this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by devries5th View Post
Im kinda late this how rengar forum and i was looking at the comments and i am not exactly sure what the "Q Train" exactly is. Could someone describe it?
With the changes to Rengar's Q he'll be able to "Q Train" people.

Basically the damage on his empowered Q is being reduced a bit and the AS steroid on it is being removed, then in turn the CD is being reduced on both Qs and now when you use the empowered Q you get 3 stacks of ferocity.

This means that you can go Q2-Q-W-Q2-E-Q-Q2-etc, just constantly using your Qs on a target.