A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Troy242621

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
I have no numbers to look at, so I'm going to trust you on this one. As long as we still CAN BUILD Rengar glass cannon and play him AS AN ASSASSIN, I'm happy. I was just worried he'd be FORCED to build like a bruiser. As long as Assassin Rengar is still viable, I rest a little easier about the whole rework. Thanks for shining some insight on us, it has alleviated my fears a bit.


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Cacahao

Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
Have you already tested if stealh/sprint it's ok?

I would glad you if you at least could teste it


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Krimson62

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
Give anyone that chance to snowball and they will do well... rengar can do that now as he is.

The question is how can you make it consistent AND not make him feel sluggish.

right now you are still pretty damn nerf heavy

Q weaker
ult loses stealth duration
burst weaker
and still talking about "making him slower"
Q may no longer effect towers

So now he wont be able to burst, or split push as well... i feel too much is being sacrificed for a dinky movespeed boost and 3 ferocity on his lowered damage Q.

With the new ult does it really warrant the change? it's a lot of work for minimal benefit (in fact it may be a deficit instead of a benefit)

i haven't seen it in action, but it feels like you're making a mistake. especially if judging off one game he got fed... How does he play from behind, how are you making up for his vulnerability to kiting. a single well timed CC shuts him down in his state now. it'll be even easier to do that now...


I feel you're looking at only what rengar can do, and not what others can do against him. I feel like you're trying to turn rengar into a melee carry, and not an assassin... infinity edge? zerkers greaves? those are carry items, and if he falls behind he will never be able to carry if he needs items like that


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacahao View Post
Have you already tested if stealh/sprint it's ok?

I would glad you if you at least could teste it

He said it right there

"Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well"


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Norr1N

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norr1N View Post
One thing I don't really like about the current ultimate, is that it's just used to initiate on someone, and has no persistant effect past that first leap. Will we be able to retain the vision/MS during Hunt/Sprint for the remainder of the duration like Yi for instance, even once we start attacking, and still be able to switch to Stalk/Prowl (which will remove the MS bonus)? Maybe halt Ferocity generation after the leap attack, but retain the MS bonus and vision till the ultimate expires? To break it down -

1. Activating R puts you in Hunt mode - granting MS bonus, vision, leap access, Ferocity gain
2. Attacking consumes leap, and halts Ferocity gain. Retain MS bonus and vision till ult expires
3. Can activate Stalk whether you attack or not, if done before ult expires, but after a certain duration. Removes MS bonus, but stealths instantly and retains vision, whilst restoring Ferocity gain/leap if already consumed/used to attack during Hunt

Both Hunt and/or Stalk could be Empowered separately based on the Ferocity requirements for the Empowered effect at the time of cast.

Also, will Bola be able to proc on-hit effects and/or reveal the target hit?

Finally, a couple trophy ideas that have sticked with me throughout this thread -

Gains vision of nearby neutral monsters within 1000 range (does not reveal champions)
Gains a non-decaying leap (regardless if in brush) whenever he achieves maximum Ferocity, consumed on the next autoattack (one of this type of leap granted per rotation of maximum Ferocity)
Hi Scarizard. Could you please respond to this post, as i'm not the only one who wants to hear about how Rengar's ultimate currently works in more detail, and what he loses/gains inbetween each stage of his ultimate, and whether or not it has a persistant effect.

Also, any word on alternative build paths for BTN for players who choose not to jungle Rengar? Like a different recipe such as Longsword + Rejuvenation Beads, or Ruby Crystal, which give alternative stats or another passive that's not jungle-oriented? Maye a Warmogs/Banshee's style passive. Would it be possible for Rengar to consume this item like Eleisa's Miracle after getting 14 Trophies?


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indaface98

Junior Member

08-28-2013

I haven't seen much on empowered ults yet so I don't know if your continuing with that idea, but what if empowered hunt made him resistant to slow? He could still get stunned, taunted, feared, and all other things but not slowed by something like ashes frost arrows or something.


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emTmyclipin2u

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
Sounds awesome, seems like every problem is fixed. Interested in hearing how top Rengar works out, make sure you do a comparison from bonetooth versus similar cost items, and try to get a late game with one. Only concern I still have is with Bonetooth in top lane being useful and its lategame effectiveness, but honestly if it isn't good I'll just not buy it, so it isn't a very big deal.


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Kelhan

Senior Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
A fed person can dish out tons of damage while building the most heavy DPS items... seriously, trying to bring anecdotic experiences to justify changes isn't worth a lot. Bring him on PBE if you want more real feedback. I simply don't like these empty comments that doesn't prove anything. It's throwing a bone to feed the angry mobs. Just like those Preview videos you used to do to show how OP a champ is.

I can do the same thing with these items as Jungler Heimerdinger.


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MoonshineDawg

Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
Well, looks like it's final.


We'll miss you Rengar.


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ClubPanda

Member

08-28-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Quick Update:

Xelnath played him in the jungle and got like 1 bajillion kills (I think the final end score was 15/7/8?) building BTN, BT, Trinity Force, Infinity Edge and Berserker's Greaves. They ended up losing to a few misplays, but so far judging by his in-game performance (and the screams of 'oh god' from the other members of Live Design) it seems like he's still 100% capable of dealing damage.

W Mechanic is back to Armor and MR from AD Reduction - this hurts his early clear, but we decided that it's actually pretty necessary for him especially now that he takes slightly longer to kill.

Sprint/Stealth ult is working out pretty well, going to play him myself later today from a Toplane position and begin working on that since jungle seems like it's working fine (insofar as a bruiser-utility guy with strong laneganks or as an assassin), so i want to make sure that Toplane Rengar is still pretty strong.
@Scarizard,

I am worried that you aren't addressing the real problems with Rengar. In fact everything here seems to be a blanket buff to Rengar, when he already has some of the most infuriating mechanics and damage potential in the game.

For example, did you know that even when Rengar is seen in a bush (say I am standing on the other end of the bush) then he can CONTINUOUSLY jump to you? At a certain point his "Unseen" Predator is no longer "Unseen" and it does more damage than any of his other abilities. This is his passive? He can just constantly jump and do absurd amounts of damage with it? Where is the counterplay?

Then there is this Triple Q bull ****. Rengar is NOT in a bad place right now, he is in a fantastic place. What gives this champion more priority over...ANY other champion in the game? Who honestly thinks that Rengar is too weak, while Sion is just right?

tl;dr It looks like you want to Jayce-ify Rengar and make him able to **** up everything and everyone without any counterplay.