A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Mars Fallon

Junior Member

08-26-2013

Not a Rengar player, but what if the ferocity stacks reduced the gap between Hunt and Stalk? i.e. 3 second gap at 0 ferocity, lose 0.5s per ferocity, at max stacks it's a 05.s gap between ult and stealth. You wouldn't want to use it all the time, but if you wanted to use stealth you could build towards it.


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Kizuna

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Senior Member

08-26-2013

Ideas for Empowered R


True Sight for Predator Vision and duration of ult (Predator vision could be extended to see wards, though this could be too strong)

X seconds to use Stalk even after breaking Hunt by attacking. (Gives Rengar an escape/stronger duel and allows him to have a temporary assassin pattern without feeling like a requirement to feel good about pushing R)

Unit Collision Ignored

Give MS Boost to allied champions following him (Joining in on the hunt, similar to captains boots enchantment, though almost becoming Sivir here)

First ability used after hunt generates a bonus ferocity

Considered to be inside a bush for purposes of bonetooth necklace for duration of hunt/stalk (Could be redundant because of MS except in case of stalk)

Obligatory increase in duration (Of either hunt and stalk or both at once)

Effects granted by empowered abilities are increased in duration and/or strength (Longer steroid Q, longer duration of ad reduction on W, lengthier snare on E, etc)

Immunity to slows for X seconds in tandem with thrill startup

Damage reduction for X seconds in tandem with thrill startup

Just throwing em out there


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Grimwohl

Senior Member

08-26-2013

You receive all the benefits of stealth. You disappear off the minimap and are untargetable without being in range of oracles/pink wards, but you are visible ON SCREEN. People physically looking at your location will be able to see you.

Maybe this could be the 5 ferocity bonus for Hunt.


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Ginrai Enerjak

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Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
One of the reasons we don't do things like different spell ranges that are non-ultimate (Zac's E is a recent example of where we've intentionally broken this rule) is that your enemies have no idea how many Ferocity points, if at all you've burned. So if you're in Hunt mode and just booking it, how do i know when to use my disengage spell? How will i know when you're about to leap?
A few things:

1) Wouldn't the differing ranges be "ultimate"? I assumed from reading the user's post that only the first leap after activating your ultimate would be the only one with increased range. Therefore, it would be just as if you are using a ultimate that can have differing ranges.

2) Did you change Rengar's leap to act like Shunpo? His leap is not instant, so there is plenty of time to react. The only time that Rengar's leap is a problem is when he is stealthed, and that's because you don't know where he is, so you're not watching his character model for signs. Which brings me to my third point:

3) I really hate that you put the stealth back on. All this will do is allow him to run away with his tail between his legs extremely successfully (something a Lion should not be doing), allow him to backdoor and get away every time due to stealth, and make it harder for people to react to his leap which you just described as something hard for you to see coming when he is visible. Running away from engagements and backdoor attempts thanks to stealth is Shaco's thing. Please don't make it Rengar's as well.

With the suggestion that Bork Hammer 40k made, you could easily get rid of the stealth, since just by having more ferocity when he activates his ult will bolster his ability to engage in ganks and teamfights. Plus, this wouldn't be something you would feel you needed to wait for 5 stacks for, because you would activate your ult whenever you were confident you could close the distance. And you could easily make some sort of buff or particle that tells people how many stacks he had when he activated his ult. Something like: "Rengar's next leap will consume all of his tremendous leap stacks, increasing the range of the leap by a number for each stack".

Please don't make the mistake of putting Stealth back on Rengar. Please consider what I have said. I believe that with your previous iteration of the ult and stacks giving leap range rather than duration that you could have a great, balanced ult for Rengar.

Please let me know if you have any concerns, and I will be glad to address them. If I can clear up any doubts you have about this solution, the better.

-Ginrai Enerjak


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ElevenOfClubs

Senior Member

08-26-2013

How about giving Rengar 1/1.5/2 Armor/MR per point of Ferocity consumed (lost upon entering stealth).

A bit of a boost as an escape, help you survive an extra auto attack in an all in. Not directly relevant to ganking or picking people off.


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olipops

Senior Member

08-26-2013

how about empowered ultimate lets rengar teleport to any jungle camp


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Insanities Eye

Junior Member

08-26-2013

Hi

This is my first time posting on Rengar and I hope I am not too late on the "Ferocity Consumption" ult part. When I was playing Rengar, I noticed my team not placing down as much wards as I usually see in most games, of course there are wards on baron and all, but I asked my team why there was so little wards, and they made a pretty good argument saying that I am the ward, my ult made it so that we didnt really need to put in time to ward.

I was wandering if you could do a trade off on a steroid and perhaps tanky part if possible:
at full Ferocity Rengar gets 15/25/30% bonus armor and magic resist on activation of Hunt, but is granted no attack speed after Stalk activation.
on lower ferocity Rengar's bonus resist is negated but is granted attack speed (based off of how much Ferocity missing) after activation of Stalk

This is a trade off that offers even more thought and strategy, build ferocity to full because there are no wards and I need to see if any enemies are isolated, or be more tanky for the team-fight and focus carry/ or shorter ult and no resist, but with better chances of killing the prey. This will encourage more wards by either support or Rengar players in order to use the steroid to the max potential or to be a little more tanky for a team fight in order to have a better chance at reaching the adc.


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RYKK888

Recruiter

08-26-2013

One thing I really liked about the old move-speed only ult was that he retained the increased move speed for 3 seconds after leaping. One problem with the current live Rengar is that he has trouble sticking to enemies with dashes or flash and any form of CC if he doesn't instantly kill them. Since his burst is lower now and he is more susceptible to kiting after his initial jump, how about his empowered ult lets him retain a certain amount of movement speed.

Either retains increased move speed for 1-3 seconds in initial part of stealth

or

Regains his increased move speed for 1-3 seconds after jump (I like this idea better since it allows him to stick after they see/focus him off).


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olipops

Senior Member

08-26-2013

I really like that idea, giving him a bonus percent of MR/Armor upon activation.


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Sonic Nova

Senior Member

08-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
1. Adds a window of time where Rengar can get caught out and still be outplayed - stealthing, picking a direction you want to go, and then bursting into speed to run away is kind of @_@. Hunt->Stalk at least has a period of time where you know he cant' stealth you, and if you don't play it right may not even need to use it.
Have you ever took a glance at Twitch? His Ambush grants stealth, an attack speed buff at the end of the duration, and (correct me if I'm wrong) he gains MS while stealthed. Twitch can far too easily escape with it than should be possible, even for a basic ability. Now you're saying that Rengar's ult is stupidly OP when all it does is add on a radar and ferocity gain, and swaps out the AS buff for a leap from a basic ability from another champ? It's an "Ultimate" ability, it's supposed to be the most powerful ability on the character. With just a few addons and changes from an already existing ability (Ambush), it's now a stupidly OP ult? If Twitch can stealth and run away with as little thought as a newborn, then why can't Rengar's ult accomplish the same thing with bonuses (cause, you know, it's an ultimate?!)

I'm not trying to sound like a self-absorbed, know-it-all 8 year old. I'm just pointing out that there are major flaws in the redesigning of Rengar's ultimate. If you separate the MS and stealth mechanics of his ultimate, you're making what is supposed to be an ultimate ability into a glorified basic ability. Keep the MS boost and stealth together, keep the radar and leap, keep the ferocity gain; it's an ultimate ability, give it the power it rightfully deserves!