A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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THUNDERMINE

Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarizard View Post

bonus question!- consuming ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i'd want to find a better bonus you get for 'empowering' your ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of '+damage and +stealth' time, but i'm open to hearing what you guys have to say.

Let me know what you guys think, and sorry for the delay!
empowered ult should modify his skillset since the q train is sorta gone?

If bola is chosen during ult/stealth/fully empowered:

Idea #1 empowering ultimate cuts bola cooldown in half for 2 bola throws, and bola becomes non skillshot during this duration.

Idea #2 empowering ultimate allows you to throw 2 bolas in a row before cooldown resets. (aka back to back, aka an escape mechanism since choosing to go stealth can be really risky now) :0

idea #3 empowered bola gets cast as 3 bolas at once flying side by side slightly fanning out and going wider the farther they go from rengar. (the root or slow however only lasts half the normal duration and the damage should be halved, this seems pretty strong for team fight harass being able to root up to 3 enemies)

side note: For empowered idea #1 & #2 add decaying slow after rooting the enemy?

The w at full ferocity/ during ult cast:

Idea #1: When rengar uses his w not only does it lower the enemy's attack damage, rengar is stealth for .25 seconds and all the enemy sees is a creepy lion eye blink in some fog really quick.

Idea #2: Same animation as above with the creepy lion eye in fog popping up with the roar effects, and the same attack damage reduction to enemies, but with a .25 second blind or .50 second blind to enemies in the radius? Seems legit to scare the heck out of them.

Idea #3: Just let his w reduce the enemy attack damage but let it grant rengar 2 ferocity on his q.

Side note: Forget the animation it sounds stupid.

And now for the benefits of hitting with a q while ulted or at full ferocity:

Idea #1: First hit to enemy out of jump lowers their attack damage by 10% for 2 seconds

idea #2: First hit adds very subtle bleed effect for 3 seconds.

Idea #3: First hit out of jump marks that enemy so if they get away rengar can see them every other second for 6 seconds if they go into the dark, and the enemy is notified that rengar sees them because he says " iii cannn smellll yourrrr bloooooooooooddddd" and they have a similar warwick mark above their head.

Side note: These don't add terrible damage, but give him some kit, defense, and teamfight prowess.


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shorttallguy

Member

08-24-2013

This new ult mechanic sounds amazing. I'm 100% on board. This sounds like a true hunter to me and it makes sense while still giving Rengar the tools he needs to be successful. I'm pumped.

As far as empowering the ult with ferocity. I don't really like the idea of having to consume ferocity on ult activation. Otherwise, I'd say my vote is for ferocity stacks to lengthen the duration or, even though you shot this idea down already, make him move faster/leap farther. Maybe stacks could even increase the range that you could detect enemies. Or maybe all these things should be granted by the bone tooth necklace.

What if when you activated your ult with max ferocity stack it would consume all ferocity stacks but allow you to "Stalk" and "Hunt" at the same time? Essentially making it the old ultimate. When ever you didn't have full stacks it would work like the new mechanic but wouldn't cost any ferocity to activate. Not even sure I like the idea myself but just something to discuss.


Quote:
Basically you lose a stack when you die, but if you kill the person who last killed you, you'd take back the trophy that 'dropped' and a new one
This is a really good idea I think. Sounds so cool.


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Lahrst

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Can you attack while in Hunt then decide to stalk? His current ulti, i like to activate it then go in and attack then back off before the 3 secounds are up and finish the prey. Like a cat playing with its food.


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Fomorian27

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Senior Member

08-24-2013

Really wish you hadn't caved to the community on the stealth issue, scarizard. Sometimes designers know more about what's best for the health of the game than some GD does. And you guys have said repeatedly that design by commitee is a bad thing, so I don't see why this should even have been up for discussion.


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Vaire

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norr1N View Post
Completely different ultimate idea from the existing. Nothing to do with stealth. Put away the pitchforks. More jungle-oriented with a focus on brush and jungle control, Rengar's specialty.

R - Jungle Presence

Cooldown - 150/120/90 seconds
Monster Vision Radius - 750/1100/1450


Passive
Reveals all neutral monsters within a short range. Does not reveal champions.
Active
Lookout

Rengar can activate this ability to reveal all brushes on the map (and any immediate nearby surrounding enemy units or monsters) for 8 seconds. During these 8 seconds, if Rengar is within brush, Rengar can reactivate this ability to cast Invade.

Invade

Rengar instantly becomes invulnerable for 2 seconds as he leaps deep into the bushes. After this short duration, Rengar emerges from any other brush on the map. A loud roar is heard from the destination brush the moment before his arrival. Enemies within the brush, or if enemies have vision of brush, also see a flash of glowing blue/orange eyes for half a second during the roar.
Attacking from brush reduces the cooldown of this ability by 1 second.

=============================

Ability will synergise with the new suggested BTN changes, which emphasise MS bonuses when entering/exiting brush, as well as his passive. Cooldown is lower than TF's as it is brush-specific, and not exactly global in the truest sense of the word.

Although simple, can be very versatile, enabling a number of plays e.g. -
- Better ganks on side lanes, not relying on movement speed alone to close gap
- More reliable like a Nocturne ult
- Better objective control, can be used to steal enemy buffs (instead of using it to gank a lane)
- Can be used to check brushes and get back to lane quicker if laning top
- Used to engage or escape (have to choose which wisely)
- If used with proper timing, can find a target singled out from the rest of the herd and pick them off
- Dodge a Karth ult
- Used to chase, and cut off fleeing enemies
- Passive reveals monster camps, enabling smoother jungle navigation with leaps
- Passive can also show nearby camps under attack by enemies
- Etc.
he's not tf


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Siky

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suggestion
Empowered Ultimate Idea
Hunt
- Activating Hunt with 5 Ferocity gives you bonus movement speed (+10% per ferocity or something).

As you start your ultimate with no Ferocity, you have 5 or 6 seconds to enter Stalk.

Stalk - Activating Stalk after Hunt with any Ferocity increases the damage of your next attack (+10% per ferocity as well or something).
Long premeditated setup of Hunting, Stalking and insta-gibbing a target. Wards will help this, the only thing that makes this hard to scout for is if he's lane ganking from fountain, but that's the singular situational thing that you can't really counter-play except for just realize he's missing from lane and be wary. If he's jungling, eyes in the jungle would matter more, but this makes his first jungle gank pretty dangerous if your own jungler doesn't want to try and counter with wards.


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C13Magnum

Member

08-24-2013

Some quick questions, does the speed bonus from thrill of the hunt still exist after the leap? And can you trigger stalk after that leap in order to get a second gap closer?

Perhaps an even bolder idea would be to have inverse scalings. Basically:

Thrill of the Hunt: Consumes all ferocity, immediately granting 5 ferocity, 3 seconds of hunting, and .5 seconds of stalking.

Ferocity bonus: Each ferocity consumed delays one point of ferocity granted by .75 seconds but increases hunting duration by 3 seconds and stalking duration by .3 seconds.

So 5 stack gives 18 seconds of hunting and 2 seconds of stalking, or 0 stack gives 3 seconds of hunting and .5 seconds of stalking.

A low stack would be useful in a situation where you can use your passive from the brush to close the gap, pull your combo, then pop ult to gap close and second combo (you are basically a sitting duck with no escape afterwards). Or perhaps your team just initiated a team fight, time to get in there immediately! Using a large stack is better for ganking a lane or escaping. A rengar caught unaware has only a very short duration speed boost and an instant heal or snare.

Basically this makes a much better distinction in a good use of the ult and a poor use. There are certainly times when popping it at low ferocity is beneficial, but other times you should be interested in building up ferocity before using it.


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Fell14043

Senior Member

08-24-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post

Bonus Question!- Consuming Ferocity on cast is still something i want to do, but i'd want to find a better bonus you get for 'Empowering' your Ultimate rather than duration. Suggestions? I anticipate a lot of '+Damage and +Stealth' time, but i'm open to hearing what you guys have to say.
I'm super excited by the work you're doing on Rengar, and have been really intrigued by everything you've come up with, so, you rock Scarizard!

Personally, I think an ultimate should embody the most fun or thematic element to a champ. With Rengar, I feel that the best thing about him, is his pounce-y nature. So, as his empowered ult, have it go something like this:

Thrill of the Hung

Hunt
Rengar activates his Predatory instincts, gaining % movement speed and vision of all nearby enemy champions. During this time, Rengar also generates up to 5 Ferocity and his first basic attack will cause him to leap. Lasts (Long Duration) or until Rengar uses an ability/leaps.

After a few seconds, Rengar may choose to reactivate Thrill of the Hunt to enter Stalk.

Stalk
Rengar loses all bonus movement speed from Thrill of the Hunt, but enters Stealth. Lasts (Shorter Duration) or until Rengar takes offensive action.

Empowered
Pounce
Consumes 5 Ferocity to empower Rengar's predatory instincts even further.
Gives Rengar 3 stacks of Pounce, allowing him to leap an additional time. Consumes 1 stack of Pounce for each use.


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Grey Verve

Member

08-24-2013

Can. Not. Wait.

An iteration of Rengar that is less toxic, more resilient and satisfies (most) current Rengar fans?

Can. Not. Wait.


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Djinra

Member

08-24-2013

Increase the range of the leap and true sight range based on ferocity consumed. Staying true to the purpose of the ult and hunting.