A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

First Riot Post
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Swyteh

Junior Member

08-21-2013

Why not put Rengar on the PBE server so players will play him and give feedbacks to improve him?


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PrOrc

Member

08-21-2013

"(Bonus Round - To give you an idea of what we're dealing with, Rengar with no Boots, 14 Stack Bonetooth, Rank 3 Thrill of the Hunt and 5 Points of Ferocity can run from the bottom lane brush to the toplane's river brush before the Ultimate's duration times out, as long as you make clever use of all the brush inbetween."

"(12-18s base currently, with the potential to get all the way up to 28 seconds!)"

So you are saying that he can almost cross the map from bottem to top in a span of 28 seconds? How is that an achevement in any way? It would take less time to port home and then run than running across the whole map. I don't think I will ever have a need to run from one side to the other, while blowing my ult and being fully visible the whole time. Not to mention I will now no longer be able to build full Glass Canon out of fear of ANY CC what so ever.


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RYKK888

Recruiter

08-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Hey dudes, stuck in a constant stream of playtests + meetings literally from the moment i walked in the door at 10am to current (and we have another hourlong meeting in like 3 minutes) - Had Morello play him this version (So far we've had 3 playtests, one with Xelnath, one with myself, and one with Morello) and we talked about how it's trending and where we want to see it go.

Due to getting no sleep, i'm probably going to head out early but not before at least prototyping and sharing my ult idea, so expect that later this evening.

I'll likely be around later to continue posting after you guys have had your eyes on it, so i look forward to talking Knifecat with y'all. Thanks for your patience so far!
I've looking forward to hearing the new ult idea. It's been a few days since this post, so I hope to hear from you soon!


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

08-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by naggerzzz View Post
**** you scarizard. Why remove stealth you ****ing punk ass *****. I say throw that ****ing "rework" in the trash and delete this thread.
are u retarded rengar never needed his stealth it was often just used as an escape or engage if the cd gets lowered and the spell get buffed overall the stealth isn't even required anymore he'll just as easily run away and he'll still jump into ur face and slash u up like before.


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

08-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScubaDivingPoop View Post
Not to mention hes still susceptible to CC especially now more then ever with his stealth removed. Just cause hes fast doesn't mean people aren't going to stun lock and burst him down. Hopefully this rework takes a long time so i can still enjoy rengar as he is.
so ur saying having his ult on a lower cd making it stronger isn't worth the trade off for losing stealth despite it being virtually useless anyways due to the increased MS which means u can just as easily jump onto someone.


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Ghostfreak24

Member

08-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by kavinh the third View Post
are u retarded rengar never needed his stealth it was often just used as an escape or engage if the cd gets lowered and the spell get buffed overall the stealth isn't even required anymore he'll just as easily run away and he'll still jump into ur face and slash u up like before.

Who lied to you? Personally speaking I feel that Rengar needs his stealth just as much as Shacco needs his to make his ganks and escapes successful. We can agree to disagree, that is all fine and dandy, but the fact of the mater is no amount of speed boost is going to protect Rengar from CC'd, slowed, knocked up, stun, etc. At least with the stealth if you were put in a bad spot or was got caught split pushing you can run in a bush, ult and make a clean break from the enemy team. If it was up to me I would rather Rengar stay as is rather he suffer and get Olaf'd.


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Norr1N

Member

08-21-2013

An idea for his ultimate that removes true stealth, but retains many of its benefits, and augments it in some areas to play well with his passive/smaller engagements.

His ultimate is turned into a toggle, which when toggled on consumes a set amount of Ferocity at a fixed rate in exchange for activation of his ultimate. BTN could further enhance this through extended duration (1 more second added per Ferocity consumed), and also give Rengar Ferocity for kills/assists enabling a brief reactivation after the cooldown if necessary, and could even restore true stealth only when in brush.

R - Hunter's Eye

Passive

Vision Radius - 750/1000/1250

Reveals all nearby enemy champions and neutral monsters within a small radius around Rengar.
Active
5 second cooldown
Cost: 1 Ferocity bar for every 2 seconds toggled on


Upon activation, instantly grants Rengar a 40/60/80% movement speed bonus, doubles the passive vision radius, and cloaks him in camouflage which makes him undetectable on the map, and untargetable for as long as it is active.

Attacking, or taking any offensive action through Summoner Spells or Item activation, will toggle this ability off. Rengar retains the movement speed bonus for an additional 3 seconds upon deactivation/expiration of this ability, as the bonus decays over the duration.

Note: Rengar can still be seen by the naked eye by attentive players whilst this ability is active, but can only be damaged/CC'd by skillshots and AOE damage.

Empowered Bonus Effect - If toggled on with maximum Ferocity stacks, Rengar gains access to a non-decaying leap (his passive outside brush like his current ult) and offers 3 seconds instead of 2 seconds in exchange for each Ferocity bar during this cast only.
==========================================

Changes made in this rework -

Ultimate is now a short cooldown toggle, ideal for smaller skirmishes, using tactically, and ganking more often
Synergises with his new kit emphasising the dueling aspect
Removes triple Q stacking entirely
Fits more thematically in terms of camo as a form of pseudo-stealth
Gives access to his passive outside brush like current ult, but more often (like a regular gap-closing ability, with a similar cooldown but geared for an ultimate)
Does not generate Ferocity any longer, but consumes it making it an interesting balancing act, in exchange for the shorter duration and versatility
Does not make him completely invisible
Does retain untargetability from true stealth, and makes him undetectable to normal wards
Pink wards/Oracles/True Sight will reveal him and make him targetable again
Is instant, as he no longer vanishes so no need for a delay
He is NOT invulnerable, and can still be CC'd/damaged through skill shots and AOE damage
Makes him unavailable to skills that require a champion e.g. Cait's ult, Heim's rockets, etc.
Movespeed is much greater, compensating for making him visible. Allows him to dodge skill shots if skillful enough
Vision is now granted passively (similar to Warwick's Blood Scent, but regardless of health %, and no MS % boost on detection) but a much shorter range (even when doubled during active)
Appears as a glowing outline to players. Optical camo for Headhunter Rengar?


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MushiMir

Junior Member

08-21-2013

About his Ultimate:

Rengar's ultimate could be remade to be able to let the player choose between whether to
-grant vision of all enemy champions within area with increased movement speed (your current idea)
-mark a specific target.

To mark a specific target:
-The target has to be above 70% maximum health.
-the above requirement is to make Rengar an initiator, not a finisher. I trust that this requirement wouldn't hinder Rengar from being an Assassin anyways.

When the target is marked:
-Rengar is not granted vision of all enemies in the area, except the one marked.
-When Rengar attacks the marked enemy with either an auto-attack or Savagery, the marked enemy will bleed.
-The bleeding enemy will take damage for every step he/she/it takes. (more distance traveled = higher damage dealt)
-The distance traveled by instantaneous "gap-closer" spells like Kassadin's R or Flash will not be calculated, but dashes like Fizz's Q/E, Riven's Q/E, Sejuani's Q will be calculated.

How does this sound?
================================================== ==================================

Also, I'd like to mention this:

Why not make his empowered abilities even better, but instead of letting him keep his Ferocity all the time, let it decay once Rengar is out of combat (unless he activated his ultimate) like Tryndamere or Renekton's Fury.

I know this sounds kind of like a nerf, but think about it: Twisted Fate had recently received a nerf regarding his Pick A Card, because he can intentionally choose a yellow card and zone the enemy for ~10 seconds.

Rengar can currently do a similar action by stacking 5 ferocity and ready to jump for a quick double Q, making the opponent rather nervous.

So how about making his Ferocity decay when Rengar is "out of combat" so that his zoning capabilities are strictly limited, but make buff up the Empowered abilities a little bit more to compensate?

================================================== ===================================
To be honest, Scarizard, when I first heard about the Rengar remake, I kind of opposed to the idea of completely removing stealth from Rengar, but I guess I can see some reasoning behind it. Hope you make good decisions and I'll be waiting for the new Rengar.


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300 Ping

Member

08-22-2013

I am not sure if this has been addressed yet, but what will happen to the Rengar hidden passive were he obtains the head of Kha'zix?

What will be the bonuses of it? It was such a rewarding item to get. Will it still be the same or will is have new buffs to it?


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FA Aokiji

Member

08-22-2013

Hey Scarizard, I've decided to repost in this thread with some feedback. I really wish you'll pay some attention to this. For now this is all I can offer, but in the future I'll post more as you can figure out from the layout of my post :P

Rengar: The Expectations and The Reality

Rengar is a character, that according to the lore is on par with Kha' Zix. This alone sets a power level where Rengar must not fall below.
But kit-wise, Kha' Zix has a superior kit. Non targeteted Gap Closer that deals AoE damage and refreshes over Targeted Gap closer that doesn't refresh and occurs under special circumstances- Non targeted slow with an AoE effect and Nuke vs Targeted slow with a single target damage- AoE waveclear from afar vs single target waveclear from melee range.
These traits give Kha'Zix better slipperiness, positioning tools, better teamfight pressure, higher value in a team composition, better assassination qualities.

In my honest opinion, Rengar has the a kit fit for a fighter and not an assassin. His assassinations take advantage of a double Q cast that doesn't really offer the enemy target the oppurtunity to retaliate.

Please consider these when changing him.

Also, I'd love it if you could get us a small video up sometime about how Rengar is currently playing.