First allow to introduce myself, my IGN is DdC Thanatoz,I have more than 2 years of experience in this game and at the moment I'm a diamond player Rengar main who unlike other mains of the same champion, I have played him since his release in PBE(way before live). I have seen him go from a mega overpowered champion that could literally do every single role in the game:
-He was a better assassin than in live(he had 170% extra damage on empowered Q-Savagery, way more than the 150% on release and the 100% atm).
-He could be a great full tank with good damage output or an excellent off tank(both with the Q damage but also his W used to give 60 armor and mr and heal 15% of max hp)
-He could be a hilarious ap nuker with W having a great base damage of 270 and 1.0 ap ratio.
To the champion that he is right now. Before people says that my opinion is biased I'm going to say that it may be part true but also I know the whole spectre of this situation, I have gone against countless Rengar players during my time playing league so I know how it feels to gib and be gibbed.
This comment will be a 2 parter, the first part will be my feedback about these changes that you guys are planning on doing/testing and the second part will be more of a rant, and I hope you guys at least take my feedback into account because you guys are known for ignoring community feedback( looking at Karma remake).
-I will begin tearing apart your statement that Rengar or at least hit ult has 0 counterplay, from 7/23/2013 to 8/15/2013 Rengar has an average of 8.68% pick rate and 46.92% win rate(taken from lolking and calculator :P). If your statement was true, his pick rate would be much higher since he should be a free win and who doesn't want a free win at least in ranked? also his win rate should be more than 50% since not all the games taken into account are normal blind picks where there could be 2 Rengars making 1 of them lose but it also counts ranked queues and ARAMS(taking these into account since these are the most common queues and I don't know if lolking counts Dominion too, most likely it does but for the sake of the argument in leaving it out) and since the team that has Rengar will always win(in the hypothetical situation that he has no counterplay like you mention in your statement) his win rate should be more than 50% but it is lower than that, what does that mean then? do we have cheats that let people win against this overpowered champion? I don't think so. Also worth to notice that his ban rate isn't 100% so that means that people know how to deal with him.
-The Q train, you say you are nerfing his instant burst to make him more of a bruiser/fighter with damage output in a 3-6 seconds interval, let me tell you that those 3 to 6 seconds are an eternity for a teamfight and Rengar doesn't have that long specially since he doesn't have sticking potential unless the enemy is dumb enough to fight Rengar in a bush or to run trough one(if they are alone) or if the enemy team doesn't focus you at all and just lets you slap the carries around summoners rift at your leisure, this will create the conflict of do I still build an insane amount of damage glass cannon items? or do I focus more on survivability/sticking potential?, this will become a vicious cycle and at the end the alternative will be just going Tankgar and splitpush all day since the attack speed steroid is still there and I will also be able to spam Q's to take down towers faster also i will have a massive movement speed boost to run away from enemy team when they try to catch me splitting.
-W Battle Roar from resistances to ad reduction like trynd's W but that actually affects minions, is true that his roar should give that fear factor to his enemies but there are 2 ways to see this, the first one already mentioned but the second one, Rengar is a prideful hunter and with a reason, he has survived countless battles against formidable preys and he has the trophies to prove it, his roar is a manifestation of this, his confidence/cockiness empowers his whole body and makes him relentless and more resistant to damage for when he has to get in those engagements with his dangerous prey. With this changes you are cornering him to a jungle role.
-E Bola shot now a skillshot, sorry but you dropped the ball on this one, this is the last nail in the coffin for top Rengar, before i get into gameplay let me tell you something, Rengar is an expert hunter, he has toned his body, weapons and abilities over the years, this means that whoever he chooses to be the target is not gonna escape the bola shot, that is the point of the bola right now in live, now to gameplay, if you make bola hit minions then it is just gonna be so easy to dodge in lane by hiding behind minions, even if it becomes like ezreal's Q people can just sidestep and dodge it, if you make it that it doesn't hit minions or monsters then he won't gain ferocity from it in the jungle hurting his jungle clearing/ganking potential, the bola strike right now gives Rengar a fallback option in those hard lanes where he can't max the Q because he is gonna get out-traded(Jax, Irelia, Panttheon, just to name a few) or gives him a way to bully safely if he is winning the lane and doesn't want to take risks.
-R no stealth, this change is worse than the bola, you are not only changing his gameplay but also his theme, he is so similar to the predator from the franchise that taking his stealth away conflicts with his overall theme,in gameplay terms, you are giving him a massive speed boost but no stealth, what's the point of that? He won't be able to get to the important targets now that everyone can see him and even if he gets to them we get to the point I made with the Q and W, he won't have the damage to take them down or won't survive long enough specially with the battle roar now not giving mr and with aoe compositions being so popular that is a major problem and all this brings us back to the easy exit, splitpush all day with tankgar and let me remind you that this is what made you nerf Rengar at the end of 2012, pros were just going full tank and splitpushing all day and that imo is far more toxic than we are dealing with right now. If you actually read the posts that some people did in this thread you would know that several have given the same option and is the perfect one to deal with his no warning/no counterplay ult problem(according to you), give him the predator's stealth effect:
At 0:36, 0:41 to 0:43, 2:01 and 2:18 to 2:35 you can see the effect of seeing a predator during his stealth.
An easy way to compare this is with the dark templar from the starcraft franchise or any stealth unit, there is wobbly effect when enemy stealth units walk trough your screen adn you don't have detection, this is a win win situation, it gives us Rengar players a closer feeling to the predator, keeping the surprise factor on the preys not paying attention but also rewarding those who actually watch the map, this lets us bypass wards unless the enemy has a sc2 pro player apm and is checking every single gap in the map where they have vision each second, if you want to throw in maybe a 5% extra mov speed it would be awesome but the numbers right now are fine since this solution isn't that gamechanging.
-Bonetooth Necklace now a jungle item with reduced stats and more utility, sorry but that's not the point of the necklace, with the changes on W, E and even Q cornering Rengar to a jungle role you are pretty much making it so that every Rengar jungle will have to buy this item, your argument is that know he can bypass wards by "brute force" with his massive speed from ult like Rammus or Hecarim, then why would I pick Rengar when I already have those 2 champions who would do a better role at that since their speed boosts are not linked to their ultimates and they have far more reliable crowd control than Rengar, again, the necklace is a way of Rengar to show off, how does he show off? with his trophies but how did he get his trophies? trough battles, what happens after a warrior survives a battle? he not only has more experience for the next one but he is also stronger and that's where the stats from the encklace come from, he has survived a lot of skirmishes and now he is stronger(armor penetration, base dmg/dmg per level and cdr), he is faster(25 mov speed), he is more agile(150 extra range on leap) and he is sneakier(ult lasts longer), the new necklace doesn't make rengar stronger in any way, he is just utility and if i wanted an utility jungler there are other 50 that can make a better job. At the moment the necklace is in a good place, it isn't mandatory for every Rengar player to buy it but if stacked it gives you a nice extra kick, you also wanted suggestions for a max stacked necklace passive well how about this:
10 AD + 2 per level
*3 stacks: 10 flat armor penetration and 5% cooldown reduction.
*6 stacks: +25 movement speed
*9 stacks: 150 extra leap range
*12 stacks: Trill of the hunt duration increased by 3 seconds(no more next attack gives 2 ferocity after ult)
And for the 15 stack give him back the PBE effect on maxed 18 stacked necklace(talking about PBE release when item had 18 stacks)
*15 stacks: Bonetooth Necklace becomes activable, when activated instantly fills Rengar's ferocity bar to full.(Cooldown same as yoummuus ghostblade 45 seconds)
With this change you would be giving Rengar more variety for teamfights, he not only could go in and blow up the carry or just use a bola strike to snare a target but now with this he could pull a clutch empowered roar for a lifesaving healing, he could pull a bola chain to lock down a target, he could use an empowered Q after locking down someone with his empowered E, the amount of gameplay this option opens is high, since this is a pretty strong effect it is at max stacks of 15(pretty hard to achieve), if you want to use those ideas for necklace then why not make another item since your necklace is useless for top lane Rengar, this new item would be unique so people won't buy both making them annoyingly strong but would also give Rengar a fallback option in case he falls behind, he could go tank or off tank with the utility of the new item since he at the moment is pretty weak when he falls behind and is really hard to come back up.
TL, DR: Give Rengar's ult the wobbly effect of the predator and change the necklace a bit(explained above).
That is the end of the part 1, I seriously hope you rioters read it, if I forgot to mention something just ask me and please bring your arguments since I'm sure I can shut them down, don't just go ahead and butcher champions left and right because you refuse to listen to the fanbase's feedback.
This art is going to be a rant, i suggest you don't read it since is mostly me raging :P
I respectfully ask you Scarizard that you stop doing this kind of reworks until you at least resolve the Karma situation, I know several Old Karma players that don't like the new one since now she is just another spam Q mid laner and there is no more "karmatic" feeling like the old one, let's be honest, you and your team ignored completely the fanbase on that rework and the result is now a champion that is picked less and has less win rate than the old one, you would say that she is more viable but she is just generic now and you plan on doing the same sh*t to Rengar, of course there is people that likes the new karma but when I asked them why they told me that it is because you guys just keep buffing her to make her more appealing when the problem is her concept, the fanbase has asked you to give her 2 mantra charges but just keep ignoring them and makign her spells stronger and stronger(and she is still not played), here is a comment on surrenderat20.net that pretty much resumes how me and several other people in this community feel about you and your reworks:
So Scarizard, you ruined Karma and now Rengar... Who's the next victim?
For real though, removing the stealth from Rengar's just completely removes the fun in playing him. Being able to surprise and scare the **** out of people was awesome and what was fun about playing Rengar.
LETS REMOVE KHAZIX'S ULT STEALTH AND GIVE HIM A HUGE BOOST OF MS TO COMPENSATE RIGHT RIOT? RIGHT?
Riot pls can i have a refund?
So Rengar isn't predator anymore, can I get a refund on my skin? I need the money for his funeral ;-;
Thanks a lot, you took away everything that made Rengar fun and made him a completely different champion. I really enjoyed the predator references but whatever, you're going to do whatever you want anyway.
Probably already mentioned, but I'm not following this as I'm not a huge Rengar fan... but anyway
To "fix" his stealth, why not make his ult give him 1 second of stealth while in brush, kinda like vayne gets stealth on tumble during her ult? Goes with his brush gameplay pretty well IMO, since the whole point of the champ is to pounce on you from a bush and rip you apart.
Example: Rengar ults, starts running from blue buff to mid, gets 1 second of stealh when he enters the river bush so that he can still have a litle time to sneak up on an enemy? Idk, just a thought...
INB4 downvotes incoming
I dont play rengar a lot but I had tons of fun with him when I did. And not because he's "op" or "up". I just freaking like him because hes this prideful predator. A PREDATOR NOT A STUPID KNIFE CAT.
Scarizard, if these changes do go through, you are going to ruin league. These ideas sound like they're coming from a 15 year old bronze player.
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