A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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orghak 6

Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
Call away. I'm not saying that i won't remove stealth if it's right for the kit, i'm saying that as this isn't live (and still won't be for a few patches), it's clearly not final. If it's wrong for the kit, i'll gladly flip the switch and look for other solutions. As for now we'll continue to test realistically about the potential this gives Rengar.
Riot acting on negative feedback?

ahahaahahahahahahahahahah


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Jbels

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by orghak 6 View Post
"The stealth removal is not final"

Bookmark this post mate.

Because I won't hesitate to call you out.
"Relax. I'd rather not piss this thing off."

- Master Cheif, Halo 2


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Leo the yordle

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by orghak 6 View Post
Riot acting on negative feedback?

ahahaahahahahahahahahahah
Orghak you really seem to hate Riot a lot recently.


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Celestya

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Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
snip
I have no qualms with iterative ideas, and in fact love how you guys are willing to try things, but you can't just say "these are potential changes" and once you start receiving negative feedback about them, get all pissy and defensive. Some people got a little out of hand, yes, but fueling that portion by acknowledging and directing your response to them...really invalidates the worries we have to begin with.

Stealth removal from Rengar isn't a problem because "Predator" it's because he's "The Pridestalker". I don't remember ever hearing "stalking" and "runs real fast at them" in the same sentence ever. But, disregarding reasonings for his ult, I'm actually personally more concerned about his W and E. These are losing HUGE on power and utility. He'll have so many counterplay options for enemies where he's left with little to do on his own merit. His W won't help him against AP, his E will be highly unreliable in lane, and his R absorbing his Ferocity stacks limits his options elsewhere (or worse yet might even force him to build up Ferocity to use his ult well...)

I respect your desire to iterate and ask for feedback, but spurning us because we provide said feedback seems counterproductive. I would totally understand if you were spurning people for any sort of irrational comments (you know what I'm talking about I hope), but really people like myself are concerned about a direction which has potential to exist. It doesn't help Rengar, it hurts him. This is taken from the theorycrafting knowledge I have of all current potential champs and what they do. The changes to Rengar will isolate him to jungle only, and restricting champs to one specific role...feels really awful.


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orghak 6

Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo the yordle View Post
Orghak you really seem to hate Riot a lot recently.
I am the spirit of discord. The embodiment of malice. My hideous visage serves to reveal to people their own faults. Without me there is no responsibility. Without me there is no progress.


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Neo Queen

Senior Member

08-17-2013

I just don't get how you can completely break down what makes a champ fun. Stealth isn't a problem according to GD screaming 'pink ward noobz'. My problem is that all this effort and substantial changes are on his ULT (R) and HARASS (E). But before it was about leaping to the ADC and Q,Q,Q that was such a problem. Now he can just run up to you and Q,Q,Q. I don't get it.

And Bonetooth? No. Ew.

I know Rengar is sooo op that everyone and the pros play him competitively (he's in like every LCS match or banned out) but a line must be drawn.


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Gespens

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Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestya View Post
Stealth removal from Rengar isn't a problem because "Predator" it's because he's "The Pridestalker". I don't remember ever hearing "stalking" and "runs real fast at them" in the same sentence ever. But, disregarding reasonings for his ult, I'm actually personally more concerned about his W and E. These are losing HUGE on power and utility. He'll have so many counterplay options for enemies where he's left with little to do on his own merit. His W won't help him against AP, his E will be highly unreliable in lane, and his R absorbing his Ferocity stacks limits his options elsewhere (or worse yet might even force him to build up Ferocity to use his ult well...)
Wild felines stalk their prey by hiding in some sort of undergrowth and leaping to them. If they fail to catch them there, they will chase.


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Bydlarius0

Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
-28 AD on bonetooth is not final, and is the exact reason i tend to not post numbers. Numbers are inconsequential. Everything about a champion could be buffed 500% if we believe the mechanics are on-point. Bonetooth will have enough AD to compensate.
Well, and then we get another Karma, absurd numbers but still pretty boring skillset, because "the mechanics are on-point". Like, seriously? She plays like a dumbed down Orianna minus the ultimate. That's beside the point, though, I digress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarizard View Post
-All this talk of 'Predator has stealth, Rengar needs it' sounds really silly to me. This is completely outside of the discussion of whether or not Rengar is a good candidate to have stealth on. The argument that 'just because he is based on a thing from pop culture he must mimic that in all ways'. That's not how we make champions, nor will it ever be. The Predator alien is a tech-using alien bounty hunter. Rengar's a lion that uses hand-made tools and lives in the jungle. He has a launch skin based off of the Predator because it seems really cool (and because we knew Kha'Zix was not far off), and they both use heat-seeking vision. Rengar's had a ton of inspirations, from Lion races in other IP's to Hunter characters from other IP's - There are more compelling arguments as to why rengar should have the mechanic, but saying that he needs it because the two characters are similar is something i can't buy
Well, as for me, I wasn't taking about that specific Predator but a predator in general. For me, a predator is someone who waits for an opportunity and then strikes at the moment of weakness, as opposed to a fighter, who charges in like no tomorrow, taking punishment in the process. That is how I myself envision playing Rengar. Not to mention, it's a pretty unique playstyle, the only one who has anything similar is Shaco, and even then he feels more like a trapper, with his boxes and decoy. Lastly, like people mentioned, Rengar's title is Pridestalker. Last thing I think of when I hear it is someone running as a lunatic. Unless, of course, you change his title along with this rework, that wouldn't be the first time.


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Jbels

Senior Member

08-17-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by orghak 6 View Post
I am the spirit of discord. The embodiment of malice. My hideous visage serves to reveal to people their own faults. Without me there is no responsibility. Without me there is no progress.
I thought Hideous Visage was a Black Sorcery Card that gave your creatures intimidate o.o


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WickedWyvern

Junior Member

08-17-2013

I have an idea regarding the preservation of the Stealth Mechanic that you will hopefully read and consider, because I think it's semi decent idea especially if the latest kit is really looking to be pushed to PBE soon.

Pulsating Stealth. Works just like it sounds, Rengar fades in and out of stealth every X amount of second(s). Toning down his current "Rocket Cat" ult might be an order, but running from bot to top with just Necklace that fast seems a tad over the top to me anyways.

Since Rengar isn't in a constant state of Stealth, you can still eliminate the need or want of a warning system. He shouldn't fade for long enough for players to NOT have fair warning of his presence, and it shouldn't bring much toxic-ness like his current live state.

Fading stealth would further reward the Rengar player with timely ulting. Do you move out of that bush right as you fade, or do you need to start running now? Do you ult and consume your current Ferocity now for more stealth fades, or do you need to throw your Empowered Bola immediately?

Something like this seems more intuitive to me while still having counter play to it. You're not perma-stealth for X time so you can be targeted and your timing and positioning become more crucial for success, where as the new ult you guys have seems more "Was that a Taric stun? Damn...wait 700 movement speed lul!!"

Maybe a terrible idea, but not nearly as bad as getting rid of the mechanic altogether imo.