A Wild Knifecat Appears! (Rengar Discussion)

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Furi Kuri

Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
The only major question I've seen here that I haven't answered is:

"Why can't Rengar be an assassin?"

That's a question I can't answer as I'm not directing this rework. Like Wav3break said, he's always going to be on the assassin side of the fence. Stealth ultimate + double cast just does that to a character.

Scarizard will be back in a few days and I'm sure Rengar will be a hot topic. We'll all talk more about this thread and I know Wav3break has been doing a great job of following this topic.
Can you tell us how fast current Rengar kills someone stacking Warmogs, and how fast new Rengar does. How many seconds of fighting does it take the new Q to do more damage.


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Vae Victis

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
We did only the ultimate change first. Then in playtesting, Scarizard played him and the live design team felt that new Rengar wasn't as healthy as he should be. So Scarizard and Wav3break took the time to start thinking about other ways of approaching him.

The whole purpose of this thread existing now is to gather your feedback on their initial thoughts and direction. Please keep sharing them.
I don't mean to be a nuisance, but could you elaborate more on "not healthy"? So was the no-counterplay-stealth + burst combination not the only problem with Rengar? In other words, what was the reasoning behind the damage nerfs to Q, if it wasn't that the burst coming out of stealth was too much?


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vae Victis View Post
I don't mean to be a nuisance, but could you elaborate more on "not healthy"? So was the no-counterplay-stealth + burst combination not the only problem with Rengar? In other words, what was the reasoning behind the damage nerfs to Q, if it wasn't that the burst coming out of stealth was too much?
Presumably they believed that Rengar's victim felt too 'powerless'.

Although I will note again the likely vast power spike of sustained DPS champions if they get time to do their thing.

Perhaps if assassins felt too 'overpowering' earlygame, they could maybe augment the scaling to allow for vastly increased burst late in the game.


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lightdragoon88

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Can you show us a video of the play test?


Really helps with getting feedback from us.


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NA Darklarik

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Hello Xelnath, a moment of your time if possible:


I think you should be able to relate and symphathise with all the negative reaction with these changes, the last time Riot tried to "Fix" rengar, they chucked his Q, R, Regen, And item at the same time, the result was a complete disaster....

your basicly doing something similar, except with all his abilities, and while i can see the buffs hes gaining behind the trades, some can not.


What buggs me however, is that you and wav3 spend so much time answering the Ranters/haters questions instead of the feedback and idea questions so many players have posted here. I for one spent four hours writing ideas on rengar and did not even get a responce to it

Could you and Wav3 possible spend more time discussing ideas instead of addressing concerns? Like E being a skillshot, BTN build paths and stats, and alternatives to his new ult?


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Troy242621

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
The only major question I've seen here that I haven't answered is:

"Why can't Rengar be an assassin?"

That's a question I can't answer as I'm not directing this rework. Like Wav3break said, he's always going to be on the assassin side of the fence. Stealth ultimate + double cast just does that to a character. My guess would be that he doesn't have a good escape to make the assassinate and leave pattern feel good. Similarly, Assassin Rengar he has no fallback pattern, unlike Kha'zix who can evolve poke.

Scarizard will be back in a few days and I'm sure Rengar will be a hot topic. We'll all talk more about this thread and I know Wav3break has been doing a great job of following this topic.
Shaco has no escape plan. Doesn't mean he needs to be turned into a bruiser, too. I just vehemently disagree with Rengar being turned into a bruiser. His entire style screams assassin. Sorry to be such a downer, I can deal with changes to his ult and everything else, it's just, him being an assassin is pretty core to his identity. I'm afraid of him no longer being Rengar.


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BillybillyBones

Junior Member

07-21-2013

One of the greatest thrills I get from playing Rengar is being able to employ his passive to its fullest extent. It is a fun gap closer, however, Rengar is only able to utilize it from the bushes or by using his ultimate. I feel like there should be a way to take advantage of the mechanic outside of these circumstances with one of his other skills. Currently, you've explored increasing the root duration on his ferocity boosted bola strike. I'm not sure how the testing will go, but it may be too long at double it's current length with 100-0 potential on locked down targets (which he doesn't really need the lockdown for anyways). Rengar is about the hunt and the thrill this entails, and I feel like his bola strike could be optimized for a stronger chase mechanic: a small root and slow with ferocity bonus, but with the ability to leap to his target. This could implement a small, yet more usable gap closer into Rengars kit, and add an interesting game play mechanic when choosing which ferocity bonus to consume: more damage or more sticking power.

I would love it if you might consider this idea. Thank you great lord Xelnath.


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Koechophe

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Senior Member

07-21-2013

Xel, you haven't answered my question yet. How is rengar being an assassin and popping out of stealth to burst someone down any different than eve being an assassin and popping out of stealth to burst someone down? Eve's W is almost stronger than a gap closer, and her burst is far more powerful than a triple Q. Why is it that SHE can be a no warning stealth assassin, but he can't? Not to say that eve's op, because there is clear counterplay. But if people are so worried about rengar, why can't they counterplay via vision wards, or even just team communication?


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Rastamon Ganja

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Will there be a new Rengar skin anytime soon?


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The Dunkmaster

Senior Member

07-21-2013

Hey could a Rioter answer this?

Due to Rengar's 0 counterplay (currently) yet Evelynn was given a detection radius, TF has an overhead warning, Nocturne's DAAARRKKNESSS and lights out on the map.

Why was Rengar an exception to these rules? Was he designed that far back before Nocturne, Evelynn's rework happened?

Did you fear this during his creation process?

Why did you give him an assassin ultimate when you designed him to be another tanky dps?

Also one last question - Similar with Elise, did you not get much time to test him properly before realising after his release how broken his kit is?