Let's talk about Yorick

First Riot Post
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Hardinger

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Xelnath, that last kit looks AMAZING. I would play Yorick much more often with that kit. The ghoul defense + revive/heal every 30 seconds is like a Heimerdinger fantasy (but darker), and I think it's fairly obvious that I'm a fan of the 'donger


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magik8ball

Senior Member

07-01-2013

That new kit sounds interesting, but I've got a few issues with it:

  • His Q makes him hop over the target? That sounds horribly awkward. Additionally, I think that makes it worse for the target who wants to escape while limiting Yorick's options. Sometimes the best option is to get in, drop some poke, and leave, one which his Q enables to great strength. Jumping over the target I feel would be a detriment to all involved, and be awkward on top of it.
  • His ult is a channel. When I play Yorick and hit my ult, I want to run over and pound the heck out of people, not sit back and watch them get mobbed by ghouls. Playstyle-wise, I straight-up hate the idea. Let the ghouls channel while I smack people, at the very least.


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

07-01-2013

How exactly would the hunchback zombie go about leaping over people?

Also "snares enemies struck by 40%" doesn't make any sense.

And you somehow took Skarner's E and turned it into a good skill.


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emTmyclipin2u

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Great, then let's find a way to making playing Yorick *and* playing against Yorick fun.
literally half of the champions in the game aren't fun to play against. Most champions are fun to play against if you are winning, not losing. For example, TF if you are winning is a decent opponent and ok to lane against. If you are losing, not only are you have a bad time, but everyone on your team hates TF, and you for losing to him.
The only champion I find fun to play against with anyone is Aatrox, and that is because to me he is just a crappy version of Tryndamere, and I get to look good as I stomp this "OP champion" into the ground. Otherwise melee adcs are fun to vs with malphite, but that's because you can beat them to death and spam laugh while they sit there unable to do anything. The way league is is one person is always having more fun than the other.

I'd prefer to say consistent. Yorick is very consistent right now, meaning unless one of you really screws up, the lane will go this way. It doesn't' matter who the opponent is, the lane will go the same. The problem is that neither side likes what that consistent outcome is. "I will destroy you in lane and then I will become a support to the team I hope wins without your involvement" isn't fun on either side. With Yorick the players don't feel good because they don't actually contribute to the win, they just prevent contributions to a loss. The opponents aren't happy because they never actually get to fulfill their role. I want to keep the consistency. I don't want Yorick to become new Draven, wildly overpowered one game, weak as a support the next. However, I would rather have Yorick be the referee than the dictator. "Alright lets have a nice, clean, farming lane, and no getting fed or out of control" rather than "sit down, you're not doing anything until 25 minutes."

A fun consistent lane is Malphite. his style is "I will lose lane to you, but not enough to ruin me. I then will destroy your ad in every fight." Both sides are happy. The enemy gets a head start and easy early game. Malphite gets to survive and have a massive impact later. The outcome of the game is decided by what happens after the laning phase. It's ok for champions to lose lane if they are supposed to, because they have accepted that as part of the sacrifice for bigger things. The problem arises when someone is essentially forced to lose lane, with no way to prevent it or slow it down.


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Kuralesache

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Senior Member

07-01-2013

I'm not a fan of this latest kit. His W and E, as written, don't seem like they would make it feel like you're a powerful necromancer - the strength doesn't come from the minions. The ultimate is okay, but is it really any different than Viktor's ultimate?
I'm definitely more a fan of kit ideas where the minions
1) have unique effects based on different ghouls
2) act independently to some degree, so you can watch your minions wreak havoc

EDIT: I may be underestimating the degree to which the minions can act, on re-reading, but none of the tooltips make controlling the minions seem like the central point.


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Righyut Shield

Junior Member

07-01-2013

Could you clarify what the leap in his q is? Is it like a xin dash? Or a Katarina port to behind the target? Thanks!


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Apocagenocitis

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelnath View Post
Here's a new pitch based on some of the ideas in this thread.

Basic idea: Yorick is a close-range, melee bruiser. He can use his ghouls to gain ranged damage and harass, but only by putting them at risk.

I also mocked up what it would look like when 3 ghouls were protecting Yorick defensively.

Attachment 720826
His minions feel too much like orriannas ball in my opinion. They feel even less like minions you summon to slap people around than they did before. He is the only champ in league that summons 3 different minions, i'd suggest focusing around the minions themselves make them have a bigger presence in lane instead of just a little bit of damage on the side or a place to cast spells from like pix or Orianna ball.


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Xelnath

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Systems Designer

07-01-2013
39 of 123 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by magik8ball View Post
That new kit sounds interesting, but I've got a few issues with it:
  • His ult is a channel. When I play Yorick and hit my ult, I want to run over and pound the heck out of people, not sit back and watch them get mobbed by ghouls. Playstyle-wise, I straight-up hate the idea. Let the ghouls channel while I smack people, at the very least.
Oh, it wasn't meant to be a channel. He digs a grave, then monsters rush out of it over time that he can control.


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Dementation

Senior Member

07-01-2013

Dang, I liked the "Omen of" names.


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Storm Frog

Senior Member

07-01-2013

One aspect of Yorick's current kit that I really enjoy is the utility of his W. Having a skill that I can use to scout brush and block skill-shots is an important part of Yorick's identity to me. It reinforces the theme of a disposable minion and there are few things as satisfying as reactively blocking a Blitz hook with Omen of Pestilence.

Unfortunately, skilled use of W to block clutch spells is diluted by the fact that you're constantly spamming ghouls which automatically block the enemy anyways. Would it be feasible to have one ghoul be flesh and bone - impassable to skill-shots, while the other ghouls are more ghost-like and don't impede skill-shots? Or perhaps rework how the ghouls interact with players such that only one of them can intentionally (or unintentionally) block skill-shots?

I'd also like to add that, thematically, the ground is ripe for one of Yorick's ghouls to claw its way up from the earth, rather than magically popping into existence.