Bully Veigar, or, how I learned to stop worrying and love the Locket.

12345 ... 9
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lokan

Senior Member

11-23-2010













WELP

Locket removed. Nothing to see here.










Veigar, the Tiny Master of Evil


Preface: I am not a high ELO player. In fact, I think I have less than 200 wins. That said, I do have significant experience with this type of game and with RTS in general -- I was the NUMBA TWO (don't ask) player of Supreme Commander (1, the expansion, and 2) for an extended period of time, and reached a PSR of 1850 in HoN. I don't mean to stretch my epeen too much, I just don't like being ignored or scoffed at - I've got pretty good reasons for the way I build and would appreciate if folks would actually try this out before mocking.

Having played probably 40 or 50 games with this build now, I am extremely confident in it- particularly now that I've shown it to LoCicero, who now seems to be quite addicted to it. It seems strong to the degree that once Flash is removed and this build becomes well known, Veigar will probably become at least tier 2.

There isn't a lot of leeway in most of the build components, and I will explain why as I go along. If someone comes up with a creative variation, I'd love to hear it - but it's probably better to play as I've outlined first a few times to get a feel for it.

The entire point of this build is to get an absurdly fast Locket (Target: 9 minutes. Anything less than 11 is acceptable, 12 is pushing it I think) and to completely take over the mid lane, denying their mid farm and in all likelihood killing him at least once. After you destroy their tower, push the rest of their team out of their lanes (hopefully by killing them) and deny them farm with your ridiculous bulk and poking power. You should be able to carry most low-elo games pretty hard, and from what I understand of what 5HITCOMBO and LoCicero have told me, this is very viable at high ELO play.

Reginald claims to have invented this build. While my instinct says that he simply watched LoCicero using it and ripped it off, and wants to claim full credit because he's an attention *****, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he came up with it independently. It's not worth fighting about.

And so, building a better Veigar:


Summoner spells: Ghost/Teleport

Since the build centers around a fast Locket, you desperately need Teleport in order to quickly return to the lane after 2 specific blue pills: once to buy your Catalyst (or just health crystal if you do not yet have enough gold at the 4:30-5:00ish region and once to buy your Locket. It also gives you a significant amount of mobility to roll around the map and help both the sidelanes to dominate. Plus, Flash is getting removed anyways.
Ghost: Pretty much a gimme. You need an escape skill, Ghost > flash imo, and you can get the Ghost mastery without mucking with your masteries. It also helps turn you into a vicious tower-diving chasebot once you are done your Locket (and probably boots).


Masteries: 0/9/21

I will probably catch some flak for this, but it is not in the least bit optional.
1. 15% spell pen is way overrated. If you are hitting someone at any point for whom this makes a real difference to your damage, you are doing something wrong.
2. SoS is imba, and 100% necessary for this build.

Anyways, 3 armor 3 mres 3 SoS, 1 Tele, 1 Ghost, 2 regen etc, 1 in Greed is the only other major caveat to what you might expect. It does make a difference.


Runes

Quints: Flat Health
Red: Magic Pen
Yellow: Armor
Blue: MP5plvl

Pretty self explanatory. The health and armor provide an immense bonus to your 400-odd starting HP, and help you paint over that giant target on your back that says HARASS MEEEEE. You won't be able to use your Q every time it comes off CD until after you get your Locket, but that's alright as long as you can last hit- you'll make up for it later.

Skill Order: QEQWQR -> Max Q, level W. Learn to drop your bomb before you stun. If your lane opponent gets ludicrously fast merc treads, go ahead and level your stun.


Item Build

Start with a Sapphire Crystal. It gives you more mana, more mana regen (due to Veigar's passive), and SoS will bring you to 13 hp/sec. Most importantly, it is a Locket component, meaning you only have to make 1850 more gold to win your lane.

Next item: Innervating Locket. Skip boots, it's seriously that important.

Then: Sorc Boots, DFG, Rylai's, Zhonya's. DFG gives you immense burst independent of your AP, which helps you get a couple early kills and snowball even harder. In pubstomps, I will often get a Mejai's after my sorc boots, but it is an extremely terrible idea in any sort of competitive game as Veigar snowballs hard enough as it is- and just needs his items.

Rylai's is next, because the HP it gives you in addition to that from Locket makes you nigh-unkillable if you're playing correctly. In addition, the insane slow added to your ridiculous Q on a short cooldown makes you an awesome chase hero on the level of Vladimir with the addition of your stun. You can pop an enemy hero with DFG, Q once or twice as they run away, and then hit them with your full combo (minus DFG of course) once they're low enough to kill.

Buy blue pots and wards whenever and wherever you can. After Locket, Veigar is not terribly item dependent.



Playstyle

SOLO MID, NOT OPTIONAL.

Before you get your Locket: play like a big chocolate ****. If possible, completely ignore your opponent and just last hit, harass with autoattack if you feel the need. The much safer play, however, is to just harass with your Q (less mana intensive than your combo) and last hit with your autoattack. You can make up the difference later.

Usually, I play as greedily as possible unless and until my opponent proves that they are determined to push me out of the lane. Usually by then I have my Catalyst and can afford the mana to harass with Q to try to keep them off my back. Be good at last hitting. You cannot afford to miss very many creeps.

Your tower will almost inevitably take some damage at this stage (usually about 1/3 for me) because you simply don't have the power yet to push it back. It's OK, just be good at last hitting under the tower.

At 4:30-6:00, blue pill and buy your health crystal or Catalyst. Teleport back to lane, continue your farm.

When Teleport CD comes back up, if you have enough gold to buy your Locket, do it immediately. If have enough gold for boots as well, get them. If you don't, but you have enough for a ward or two, go ahead and get that. You will need them. If you don't have enough gold for Locket, you are probably doing something wrong, but it is likely not a huge deal. Just wait the extra 30 seconds. Teleport back to the lane, and TAKE OVER.

The +430hp from Locket, and the approximately 80hp/5s you gain (not counting the bonus you get from SoS off of the Mana component) while you last hit/harass with Q every time it's off CD means that you really do not give a **** about just about anything. Do not overextend, as you can still get ganked by their jungler, but any sort of harass from the opponent or his creeps is now literally nothing to you. Even his tower is really a non-concern, especially if you took Armor yellow runes.

The first couple minutes after you get your Locket are the greatest, and most hilarious seconds of the game as your opponent is scratching his head at your infinite quantities of HP and mana, and frustrated that he can't even come close to the lane. If he does, pop him with Q. If he persists, pop him with Q again because you are TANK VEIGAR and he needs to get the **** off your lawn. If your opponent ever goes below something like 500 HP and comes remotely close to you, pop ghost, hit him with your full combo + ult. He will usually live with about 60 hp, which is OK, because you can chase him right under and even through his god**** tower and hit him again with your Q for the kill.

If you are playing properly, your opponent will either die or have to blue pill. When he does, push the lane and do damage to his tower. Be careful of the enemy jungler, especially if your opponent seems to be taking an unusually long time to return to the lane. When he does return, go back to your tower, blue pill, buy your sorc boots, TP back in, and finish the job on his tower. With your sorc boots, your power is practically doubled again due to the mobility and spell pen, and you should have no trouble killing the enemy tower, barring teamfights and other bull**** that may find their way to the mid.

After this, play Veigar like you would normally play Veigar, but more aggressively. Roam the map pushing lanes and looking for kills. Buy wards. Buy blue pots. Initiate teamfights with your insane stun. Keep in mind that the regen from Locket means that you practically never have to return to base, but you probably should anyways every time your TP is up anyways to buy. Because of your considerable bulk, do not be afraid of towerdiving to get a kill or two. Poke constantly. KS like a ***** because you get +5AP from every kill. Basically be a big (lol) blue bully, and punish enemies for being alone, and especially for being low health or squishy. If there is a Lux on the enemy team, laugh your ass off because you are going to kill her over and over again.

Buffs
Let your jungler take the first 2 blue buffs, but ask for the 3rd one. The 24% CDR + the 6% from your masteries and 10% from Locket means you're maxed. Even more mana never hurts either.

IGN Lokan if you want a game.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cadfan

Senior Member

11-23-2010

I don't know about Veigar, I've never played him. But I WILL testify that the Locket is way better than people think. It erases all of the hp and mana concerns your mage ever had.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

5HATCOMBO

Senior Member

11-23-2010

Yeah I've definitely lost to locket veigar on corki. Pre-6 it's all fine and good but then he shows up with locket on his first buy and you just completely lose the ability to harass and he's nuking you for 1/3 your hp every time you go in.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vanilla Squid

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-24-2010

I don't understand the value of locket I guess. Is veigar just insanely mana hungry that I'm not aware of? What about mana/5/level yellows and blues, the 5 mana/5 mastery, and the 5% extra mana mastery? Does the extra HP or HP regen make him that much more durable?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lokan

Senior Member

11-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla Squid View Post
I don't understand the value of locket I guess. Is veigar just insanely mana hungry that I'm not aware of? What about mana/5/level yellows and blues, the 5 mana/5 mastery, and the 5% extra mana mastery? Does the extra HP or HP regen make him that much more durable?
Staying power. You basically become midgame Mordekaiser with insane burst at long range, an insanely spammable Q for poking, and scaling through your Q's passive. It becomes impossible to kill you through attrition, which is a large problem for Veigar in general.

And yes, even with all of the above, Veigar's mana needs aren't nearly met. The Locket just about does it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LolCatIsLol

Senior Member

11-24-2010

IMO the main problem with Veigar is his earlygame, even before Locket. Locket costs a hefty ~2600 gold, meaning a lot of farm is needed. However, if your lane opponent is any good, he will jump on you whenever possible because Veigar has no built in escape ability and has terrible base survivability - even with runes, you'd be hard put to farm enough money for a Locket. Veigar is THAT squishy, and any intelligent solo-mid will be able to zone him out of exp and gold pretty effectively.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lokan

Senior Member

11-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LolCatIsLol View Post
IMO the main problem with Veigar is his earlygame, even before Locket. Locket costs a hefty ~2600 gold, meaning a lot of farm is needed. However, if your lane opponent is any good, he will jump on you whenever possible because Veigar has no built in escape ability and has terrible base survivability - even with runes, you'd be hard put to farm enough money for a Locket. Veigar is THAT squishy, and any intelligent solo-mid will be able to zone him out of exp and gold pretty effectively.
Never mind that this has been working for me (at a 1600 level) and LoCicero (at a 1900 level) extremely consistently.

1. Locket costs 2250. You start with Mana Crystal. Locket costs 1850. Read the thread and try the build before criticizing, please.

2. If you play intelligently, you can keep yourself from getting zoned out against nearly any hero. I've had more trouble against Pantheon, Karthus, Ashe, and Corki than anyone else- and while those are a challenge against competent players, it can still be done, the locket is still very obtainable within 10 minutes.

If you find yourself getting zoned/pressured too hard to handle, stop last hitting creeps with Q, and save it to pop the enemy hero when he gets too close, last hitting only with your autoattack. It will buy you some breathing room.

I've played probably half my games as Veigar. I know how squishy he is, thanks.

Another important thing to note is that yes, you will almost certainly have less CS than your opponent in the lane before you get your locket. Yes, you will be feeling significant amounts of pressure, and possibly need to bluepill prematurely. It's alright for the following reasons:

1. Veigar scales with CS better than nearly any other hero. 1 AP is worth about 20 gold, so a last hit with Q is worth about 40-45 gold on average.
2. Once you get your Locket, your opponent will be experiencing an exaggerated version of what you go through pre-locket. It comes out in your favor, as long as you get it reasonably quickly so that you still have some time in the laning phase to put the hurt on your lane opponent.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LolCatIsLol

Senior Member

11-24-2010

Erm yeah somehow you took offense to my post, even though I did not use any harsh words anywhere at all... and the tone of my post wasn't hostile either. Neither was my post criticism, it's just my honest opinion - Veigar's ridiculously squishy. If you (somehow) felt offended by my post, I apologise.

I play Veigar a lot as well, and my elo is around 1700; I know his flaws and he IS really really fun to play. However, the issue is that he is one of the only late game mage carries in the game, and IMO it isn't worth delaying your core build so much for a Locket. If you want staying power, a Rod of Ages is better imo because it gives mana AND health, and a hefty amount of AP as well. The only plus point locket has over RoA is the regeneration, but after RoA most games will have gone to the teamfight phase already, rendering the extra regeneration insignificant when compared to the AP from a Rod of Ages.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lokan

Senior Member

11-24-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by LolCatIsLol View Post
Erm yeah somehow you took offense to my post, even though I did not use any harsh words anywhere at all... and the tone of my post wasn't hostile either. Neither was my post criticism, it's just my honest opinion - Veigar's ridiculously squishy. If you (somehow) felt offended by my post, I apologise.

I play Veigar a lot as well, and my elo is around 1700; I know his flaws and he IS really really fun to play. However, the issue is that he is one of the only late game mage carries in the game, and IMO it isn't worth delaying your core build so much for a Locket. If you want staying power, a Rod of Ages is better imo because it gives mana AND health, and a hefty amount of AP as well. The only plus point locket has over RoA is the regeneration, but after RoA most games will have gone to the teamfight phase already, rendering the extra regeneration insignificant when compared to the AP from a Rod of Ages.
No worries- I didn't take offense, I just assumed you didn't read the post. Sorry if I sound overly vindictive, it's been a long day. =P

There are plenty of reasons to want regen in the midgame, I'll probably post my opinion on this tomorrow or later, but for now, consider:

Locket: 2250 gold
Rod of Ages: 3035 gold

The only real advantage RoA has over Locket is the AP. RoA starts with 60, and [i]eventually[i] gives you another 20. A Blasting Wand gives you 40 for little more than the cost difference between Locket and RoA. This leaves a deficit of 20, which is, in my opinion, fairly negligible. The other 20 you can very easily get from extra creeps blasted by Q due to your regen.

anyways it's 5am gnight


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

LolCatIsLol

Senior Member

11-24-2010

After you get Rod of Ages you don't have to worry abut mana problems anymore either, due to the mana from RoA.


12345 ... 9