Alister: The mobile, indestructible health fountain

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Bait

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Senior Member

12-15-2009

hmmm.. i dont play alistar often. now i think about it, i'd say chalice is probably better. the odd thing is i HAVE used straight up tri force and did okay with it.

when i played alistar long ago, i used mana manip with soraka.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

12-15-2009

teleport on Alistar seems funny. But I can see it working, as he is one of the better tower defenders to a two man or less push.
Ive gone a tear build, and it works pretty dam good.
Ive never gone a catalyst build.

I think the point of chalice is more so about the cost and the benefit of the magic resist along with the mana regen. I play a super aggressive Ali, that spams pulv on creep waves and enemy champs alike. Along with chalice, I also (typically) run a full rune book of Mana Regen/per 5 /per level (besides quickness and dodge quints). Because I also focus on a early sheen, I never have mana issues, and feel my build makes me a solid tank with no need to waste cash on HP pots, or the need to play passively if I am getting harassed prior to lvl 4.

edit to baits post: My friend and my favorite combo is dual mana manips - Blitzcrank + Alistar. Bop brothers. you can kill a lane so fast at lvls 1-4.


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Slide

Senior Member

12-15-2009

I think Chalice VS Tear debate was done to death. Chalice always comes out on top. Its just a better item for a tank. Sheen is all the boost to your mana pool you need. Remember, we arent Kassadin chaining long combos of spells. We use 2 skill in combo and a cheap one often. Its mor eimportant to have the regen then the max mana pool. The magic resist just happens to be the perfect pairing for the item as far as Alistar is concerned.

Ive tried catalyst. Its nowhere near as good as Chalice. Especially now that they nerfed it. When I started with Alistar, I was going straight or innervating locket. I can honestly say that short of a VERY few specific situations, it is inferior to chalice by leaps and bounds. Its too **** expensive and you have MUCh more of an effect on ethe game setting up kills then pushing mass heals. Chalice + level 2 roar should be all the healing you need.

As to teleport. I really feel its a waste on Alistar. Hes got great staying power with a chalice and roar and ghost + cleanse is just WAY too **** effective not to take. Ghost guarantees a set-up (and normally a kill) every time it is up and cleanse gets you out of the most rediculous situations. I just cant justify not taking those 2 abilities. They are the perfect combo for Alistar.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

12-15-2009

yea, side note, if you level headbutt 1st(which I do), and want to spam it(which I do), tear is worthless. you will never regen enough to keep using headbutt as much as you want.

archangel's staff is fun on Ali though. I've done it a few times, but it's super hard to bank for, and you need other items inbetween unless you are vs total scrubs.


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Slide

Senior Member

12-15-2009

Yeah I go pulverize first for the early FB attempt. Same problem. 70 mana on a 15 second cooldown. Level 2 is heal. I tend to go OOM JUST when i get enough gold to buy chalice. If we get the FB (normally I get the assist) I will wait in the lane with no mana (still being able to heal though as its so cheap) untill I have enough for chalice and boots.

I think id fight to the end that Archangels is a bad idea on Alistar. Spending that amount of gold (which is hard to come by on Alistar) for an item that primarily gives you ap, is a bad idea. Heal scales badly and doesnt need it. Pulverize and headbutt scale very well, but they due to the cooldown, you wont get it more then once in a fight anyways (rarely anyways). While it would make your combo do more damage, properly learning how to chain your combo with sheen attacks will add almost as much damage and costs FAR less.

Lately I have been going Chalice->Tabi->Sheen->Warmoggs->Force of Nature->frozen heart

Havnt actually completed the heart yet and only got FoN in one game. I must say though, its pretty freaking ridiculous. Only works if your doing well (In the game that i got farthest in this build, I had 10 kills, 4 deaths and 19 assists). The key is Warmoggs, if you can get it built, you can wrack up a major ammount of assists. The rest then just comes naturally. Nothing like have 3500 HP, regening 40 HP PER SECOND and having 75% mitigation to magical and 50% to physical (if I could get the heart finished it would be 75% as well plus the attackspeed reduction).

Its hard to do, but its been how ive been going. I rarely get farther then warmoggs as it is VERY difficult for the enemy team to push you away once you have it and the other 3 items.

EDIT: I say the key is warmoggs, but its having warmoggs + the first 3 items. Rushing warmoggs on Alistar will only hurt your ability to set up kills, get assists and kill creeps.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

12-15-2009

warmogs seems like a waste.. you shouldnt need Hp regen with heal spam, and your hp is already high from just base increases per level. I only see Warmog's as useful is if I am being chased down by a 3-5man gank alone, and wont have support for 30 seconds or so, due to poor positioning/map awareness on my part.

Alistar also has nice base armor, so what I try to do is focus the 4th item on more armor. This is my typical build (similiar to my first post on this thread):

1- Chalice (Start with Meki; add 2hp pots if you are scurred)
2- Ninja Tabi
3- Sheen

4- Depends on game
a) if you are rolling, just end things fast and go for triforce (start with zeal)
b) if you need to tank down towers through a good defense, go armor. Choices are- Frozen Heart(best), Guardian Angel(great but pricey), Aegis of the Legion(depends on team need)
c) spell damage is killing you - Banshee's veil

Game should be over by the 4th item.. if not, go towards a guardian angel, and maxing your Cooldown Reduction to 40%. Atma's Impaler is nice too, but I rarely build it. With the 4th item complete, you should beable to tank about 20hits from a tower. Knowing this, allows your team to push and position before the creep wave comes up. This is important in higher lvl play as the creep wave is meaningless. If you can push the enemy champions back before the creep wave is aoe'd down, or focused on, you can reposition, drop the tower and stop taking tower hits.. 1 less tower, 1 step closer to a win.

Skills:
1) Pulv (early kill potential/save potential/creep potential)
2) Headbutt or roar depending on harassment
3) Headbutt or roar depending on harassment
4) if you haven't taken roar yet, take it now, or 2nd lvl in headbutt
5) headbutt
6) Ult
7) Head
8) pulv
Ult>Headbutt>Pulverize>Roar

0/15/15 mastery (u could also go 0/21/9 or 0/9/21 depending on your preferences)
ghost walk, cleanse
and gg often.

Another trade secret with Alistar.. A good Alistar can hit every single minion in a wave with a well placed Pulverize. To push a tower, use this on every minion wave, to keep the front line minions alive a bit longer to get an extra heal from you, building up a massive minion wave to push a tower with solo.


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Bait

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Senior Member

12-15-2009

0/9/21 is bad because the blue mastery only affects summoner spells, not regular skills.
0/21/9 is best for this patch.

reason: cleanse pwnz.


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nicosharp

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Senior Member

12-15-2009

id argue that 0/15/15 is best for this patch.. Alistar benefits from Quickness 3/3 and Cleanse 1/1, specially if you can run 2 or 3 movement quints.
if cleanse gets nerfed, id go back to 9/0/21 or 0/9/21 for flash/ghost walk and the cooldown reduced on both through utility mastery.


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Wisewind

Senior Member

12-15-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicosharp View Post
id argue that 0/15/15 is best for this patch.. Alistar benefits from Quickness 3/3 and Cleanse 1/1, specially if you can run 2 or 3 movement quints.
if cleanse gets nerfed, id go back to 9/0/21 or 0/9/21 for flash/ghost walk and the cooldown reduced on both through utility mastery.
this


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Wisewind

Senior Member

12-15-2009

I actually like taking fiendish codex over sheen as third item. While Sheen helps with burst damage and demolishing towers, this item handicaps you if it turns late game. I would rather take codex (CD, mana regen, AP) and build towards Nashor's rather than sheen which you either start a new item or upgrade to Trinity which is not cost-effective considering the bonuses it gives you.