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[Guide]Swain, the Demon Necromancer

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NessOnett

Senior Member

01-02-2011

Quote:
steelwin:
This build is great but remember you can always tweak things to fit your play style...
I have never gotten a RoA and I never will I believe it's useless same with Archangels (Unless you are playing Veigar) Stacking health like that is great until you hit level 30 (I'm not sure if you are or not) and then you begin running into characters that know what Madreds is and things start going down hill much faster due to stacking health.


as for my credentials, I have been level 30 for a long time, longer likely than you have been playing(as I see you're a junior member and judging by your comments). I have nearly 2000 games played, and have been playing this game for well over a year. I can't think of a single legitimate guide that's been written by someone who isn't level 30.

"stacking" health implies itemizing for health over everything else. I get two items that have both health, AP, and a third utility effect, then I get tanky resistance-heavy items to make the health matter more. IF anyone gets a madreds, I will have MR built around the same time they get it(unless they rush it ie. Warwick). But once you get past the early level 30s, you see less madreds because people eventually realize it isn't a great item except on a few choice characters who take special advantage of it(Warwick, Shaco), and it becomes less of a problem. Not that it would be too much of a problem anyways. With base MR, the passive would take 40 hits to kill you, that's before your healing from ult is factored in.

I realize that stacking purely health doesn't make you obscenely tanky. But it does make you the tankiest in terms of early game cost:EHP ratio, which is why I start with that, and build resistances after I have my utility base. And since Swain's game is to outlast people, he needs to have some way to counter being nuked early on which health is best for...dealing with nukes.


I agree that you should take everything with a grain of salt and modify to fit your style, but it seems as though the reasoning behind my choices was unclear, so I took to clarify them (This is not a spiteful attack at you).


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

01-02-2011

With HP items, Madred's dealing the full 4% will take you down in 25 hits or less.

Without HP items, Madred's dealing the full 4% will take you down in 25 hits or less.

There is no disadvantage to building items with HP.

By your logic, no one should build health items. However, you need health to absorb damage, and you need resistances to make each point of HP worth that much more. Having two items in your build that grant HP is not 'health stacking', it's building with survivability in mind. I don't care if you have 400 AP, it's useless if you're dead.


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

01-03-2011

Mana regen does very little for Swain, especially considering you should have blue buff all the time.


The entire guide fails because of this false statement.

The current meta above 1400 elo arranged requires you to have a jungler..Even the devs have acknowledged it. Your jungler will be CRIPPLED if your constantly stealing his jungling speed buff, as well as his XP..

If youre not getting at least Chalice to keep your mana up, you my friend, ARE DOING IT WRONG>


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

01-03-2011

And, ive already written a Swain guide.


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sanajin

Recruiter

01-06-2011

Quote:
NessOnett:

What to do:
Always take a side-lane with Swain. He is an AWFUL solo because his damage is mediocre, he has weak early game escape potential, and his disables are so much more effective with a lanemate that can follow up on them.





Nay, sir. I dominated more than 90% of my matches in mid with Swain. Harass them down with Torment, then once they're low enough...
  • Lock them with Nevermove
  • Close distance with Flash (if necessary)
  • Torment, Laserbird, Raven form, Ignite (if you took it).
This catches so many people off guard, it's silly. Most people (yourself included, it seems) underestimate how fast Swain's damage stacks, he feels like a burst nuker sometimes.


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sanajin

Recruiter

01-06-2011

Quote:
Grinningsphinx:
Mana regen does very little for Swain, especially considering you should have blue buff all the time.


The entire guide fails because of this false statement.

The current meta above 1400 elo arranged requires you to have a jungler..Even the devs have acknowledged it. Your jungler will be CRIPPLED if your constantly stealing his jungling speed buff, as well as his XP..

If youre not getting at least Chalice to keep your mana up, you my friend, ARE DOING IT WRONG>


I agree that mana regen is crucial, and having blue buff all the time is just not possible in most games.

I'd recommend just Meki Pendant instead of Chalice though, because you want to build it into a Deathfire Grasp.


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Shagrarz

Senior Member

01-06-2011

Quote:
Grinningsphinx:
And, ive already written a Swain guide.


Its not in the Complete list of guides post, so it must have not been very notable.

Quote:
Grinningsphinx:
The current meta above 1400 elo arranged requires you to have a jungler..Even the devs have acknowledged it. Your jungler will be CRIPPLED if your constantly stealing his jungling speed buff, as well as his XP..

If youre not getting at least Chalice to keep your mana up, you my friend, ARE DOING IT WRONG>


So...even during the team fight phase, to which they were referring, your jungler needs Golems...REALLY? During ganking/end of laning phase your jungler will more than likely be willing to let Swain (or an important carry) have the blue buff...and if he isn't willing HE's doing it wrong.

But agreed on the fact that Swain needs some form of mana regen other than just his passive. Yes, it is amazing regen all by itself...but I have found that the way I build Swain it doesn't always get my mana back up in time if we didn't get them all in the first push. If I know i'm not going to be my team's choice for Golem's, I'll usually pick up a chalice pretty early and then continue with my core build.


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Grinningsphinx

Senior Member

01-07-2011

Actually the Devs generally refer to XP gain gain over two solo lanes, and the ability of junglers to gank 3 v 2 on side lanes that are pushed up on your towers...But I digress.


At the end of the laning phase I typically have Chalice+tear built, possibly SV and will finish GS in the next lvl or so... meaning i have zero need for Blue and letting it be taken by our hardest nuker/carry.


Ive never even looked in the "complete" list of guides...my swain guide was one of the first as i played him for about a week solid after release.


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NessOnett

Senior Member

02-06-2011

Quote:
sanajin:
Nay, sir. I dominated more than 90% of my matches in mid with Swain. Harass them down with Torment, then once they're low enough...
  • Lock them with Nevermove
  • Close distance with Flash (if necessary)
  • Torment, Laserbird, Raven form, Ignite (if you took it).
This catches so many people off guard, it's silly. Most people (yourself included, it seems) underestimate how fast Swain's damage stacks, he feels like a burst nuker sometimes.


Take a look at Taric. He will win mid if he does it right, against most anyone. Why does Taric not take mid? Because he is better in a sidelane supporting a teammate who can take advantage of the things he provides. And because 9 times out of 10, there are better choices for your team's solo.

Swain can take a solo very well if given the opportunity. But given a choice between him in the solo lane or duo when your vlad/sivir gets the other spot...Swain should always give up solo to the other one. It shouldn't even be a question.


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Saint Kaizz

Senior Member

02-14-2011

I love Swain, I used to sleep on him because I never saw him played but I like off tanking with him, yes, off tanking. I've literally had enough mana and mana regen that in a team fight, kept my ult up the entire time and a Xin Zhao really couldn't kill me because I was over healing his damage. I don't agree witht he always needing a lane partner though. I like taking solo mid with Swain, it's fun. Of course you're very squishy before 6, but after that, pushing is so awesome. I've scared off so many better mid laners like Ezreal, Malzahar (I felt bad for that), Ashes. So easy to dominate. Ignite after E = death to all!!!