[Guide]Swain, the Demon Necromancer

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illset

Senior Member

11-23-2010

anyone got the math for swain with will? seems like it would be a must with him.. Just started playing him again yesterday.. early game is rough


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ZUCK MY DICT iYi

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Senior Recruiter

11-23-2010

Love this champ


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostik View Post
anyone got the math for swain with will? seems like it would be a must with him.. Just started playing him again yesterday.. early game is rough
Early game is a blast - just harass with Nevermove and you and your ally control the lane.

Will of the Ancients offers 20% Spell Vamp.

Your Ultimate:
Ultimate at level 3 deals 90 damage per second, AoE.
Since it's AoE, it only receives 33% of the 20% Spell Vamp:

20x.33 = 6.6% Spell Vamp per hit.

90x.066 = 5.9 HP per hit

You go from 45 HP healed, to 50.9 HP healed per return.... not worth it.

At 200 AP: 130x.03 = 8.58 HP per hit... still not worth it

Nevermove
Same as above. It's AoE, only 6.6%, per target captured.
At 18, deals 240.

240 x .066 = 15.84 HP gained per target captured. Not worth it.

At 200 AP: 380 x .066 = 25.08 HP gained per target captured. Still not worth it.

Torment
At 18, deals 235 damage to a single target. Gets the full 20%

235 x .2 = 53 HP returned... 53 HP every 6-8 seconds depending on your CDR - not worth it.

At 200 AP: 395 x .2 = 79 HP returned... still not worth it.

Laser Bird
At 18, deals 85 damage per second to a single target. Gets the full 20%.

85x.2 = 17 HP per tick. 51 HP if they stay in the spell for it's duration. Not worth it.

At 200 AP: 145 x .2 = 29 HP per tick. 87 HP if they stay in the spell for it's duration. Still not worth it.


For a full combo of spells, at 200 AP, you'll gain a max of 191.1 HP before your ultimate, with 0 magic resistance - Over time... not all at once. Doesn't sound like a whole lot to me considering it's over the course of several seconds. If it was a burst of that amount, I would say otherwise... but not for Swain.

UPDATE:12/25/10 - Updated to reflect that AoE Spell Vamp is 33% of the max benefit, rather than 15%


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illset

Senior Member

11-23-2010

good to know about the spell vamp.. anyone ever incorperate maledy in the build tried it with a game yesterday and seemed to help in team fights focusing on a squishy/carry in build form and torment..


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ghostlight

Member

11-23-2010

honestly something i found to be pretty interesting on swain is guisoo rageblade...doesnt really need the attack boost but at full stacks you get a nice little ap boost for a very decent price


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Taelic

Member

11-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by NessOnett View Post
Well his damage is decent like I said, and he can get early kills easily, but it's hard for him to do it ALONE and having a partner makes things much better.

As for the AA staff, the problem is that a caster's early game is where they shine. Getting a tear does next to nothing for you, except that it builds into an AA. The tear slows you down to the point where your damage is low and survivability is awful. It's the same thing with other casters, especially Kassadin, the tear cripples their early game compared to how they could feed themselves if they didn't have it.

Rylai's is the second item after ROA, so I'm not sure how I could get it "earlier" since it gives no mana and you need a decent pool for Swain to work.
I have had many games rushing Rylais. It's fairly easy to keep mana up on swain, and once you get giants belt you can intimidate anyone you lane against. ROA is nice, but not necessary in the slightest.


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Ahrimal

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Senior Member

12-14-2010

" I die a little inside every time I see a Swain rush an archangel's"
"He is an AWFUL solo because his damage is mediocre"
"after that you need to go tank 90% of the time. Yes, you heard me, TANK. Your next item should usually be a Glacial Shroud(Frozen Heart) or a Banshee's Veil.
Randuin's Omen and Sunfire Capes also work"

Sorry, you don't know how to play swain. All of these above sentences prove that. Swain is an incredible mid, with high damage potential. Also, your skill order is garbage. The reason I haven't written a guide for Swain is because I enjoy destroying every other Swain I've ever met. Keep on trying though.


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NessOnett

Senior Member

12-25-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahrimal View Post
Sorry, you don't know how to play swain. All of these above sentences prove that. Swain is an incredible mid, with high damage potential. Also, your skill order is garbage. The reason I haven't written a guide for Swain is because I enjoy destroying every other Swain I've ever met. Keep on trying though.
I absolutely love it when people who I stomp in-game come to my forum guide to try and discredit my strategies.

Really does say a lot about the standard for this community:
  • get beat hard in-game
  • come to forums to *****
  • pretend they did awesome(when it's usually their fault they lost)
I only wished I had seen this coming, I would have taken a screenshot of the victory screen with him as the defeated.


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cheshirebat

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Senior Member

12-25-2010

rushing AA is terrible on swain, but I don't think he's a bad solo. I DO think however, that most teams should have someone better fit for solo. If you have a jungler, theres a decent chance you can snag one of the two. With that said, his dual lane power, when paired with a decent player and someone with any semblance of lane control, can be staggering.


The minibuff to his passive is much better than many people imagine, Outside of a dorans ring, you should never have mana regen. You just don't need it.


Guinsoos rageblade +malady sounds like an interesting combo on him... as it will make your torment hurt really nicely if you can keep them in attack range. Wonder if it's worth the 4k gold and two slots though.

The guy who talked about will of the ancients earlier, and gave numbers on it, should also state that if another player has it on your team, that vamp goes up to 40%. Auras stack once for the carriers of the items that give the aura. Not a huge deal, but I guess in the proper formation it could be a plan? I dunno.

Pretty good guide. I play swain as a support/CCer/Tank, and usually end up with quite solid scores as well, win or loss. I think it takes the best advantage of his skillset along with providing your team the most benefit. (Heavy nuking swain might be good at killing a target, but I'd prefer to stay in the fight. You have way too much CC to just hop in and leave)


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steelwin

Junior Member

12-26-2010

This build is great but remember you can always tweak things to fit your play style...
I have never gotten a RoA and I never will I believe it's useless same with Archangels (Unless you are playing Veigar) Stacking health like that is great until you hit level 30 (I'm not sure if you are or not) and then you begin running into characters that know what Madreds is and things start going down hill much faster due to stacking health.

(I play a ranged Dps Swain)
My item build consists of

Doran's ring
Sorcerer's Shoes
Rylai's

After those 3 basic Items for Practically any caster I begin to stack AP usually going for

Abyssal Scepter
Void Staff
Zhonya's Ring

depending of which I can farm easier going for Zhonya's first unless team is losing then I go for others.

Also I take cool down reduction runes for my blues.

All of these are stated opinions in no way am I saying your build is wrong people just play differently and can be efficient using different items.

This is a great build thanks for the read ^^