@Morello Any Plans for Shaco?

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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-09-2013

IMPORTANT NOTICE: I see now that I was very ambiguous about my intentions in the original post. That was a mistake, and I intend to correct it. Sorry about that. I DO NOT think ANY of Shaco's skills need to be replaced whatsoever. What I DO think he needs is PURELY number tweaking. Once again, I think his kit's stats should be modified and NOT the kit itself. I'm with you guys and gals, I think he's incredibly fun to play. I just think his numbers need a little bit of slight tuning on a couple skills. Nothing huge, just a couple slight modifications.



I'm curious what you (Or another member of Riot staff) think(s) of Shaco right now. Is he considered in a good spot, or is he just on the waiting list for changes? If the latter, what type of things are being considered for changes?

I feel as though, since champions that over-rewarded minimal effort were reworked/tweaked, the opposite end of the spectrum may warrant one as well. People hate playing against him and the risk/reward ratio is just unbelievably unbalanced. He seems like a shoe-in for one to me. He really just needs some number tweaks, not a full rework. The last round of Shaco nerfs were honestly unnecessary*.

*(And they didn't affect his early game ganks out of nowhere with the Deceive nerfs. The only thing that changed is that now, instead of Deceiving over walls consistently, he occasionally slams his face into it.)

So, GD, what do YOU think should happen to Shaco?


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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Any general consensus on him?


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thepr0owns

Senior Member

06-09-2013

He stomps at plat and has an above average win rate in fact win rate wise hes stronger then zed and riven.


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Bullettime7

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Personally think Shaco is a candidate for a rework. Shaco has never been truly balanced. He's always floating between under and overpowered due to his kit design and despite popular in high end solo queue (esp in KR) hasn't seen pro player in forever.

He has no late game at all. He's built like a melee carry and gets absolutely melted or he goes bruiser Shaco and does no damage. This means Shaco has to splitpush no matter how fed he gets.

Because he has NO late game, he has to have a dominant early game. Except his early game strength comes, not from numbers, but from his kit. Stealth blinks for level 2 ganks, boxes for jungle invasion, etc. Then because he's so dominant at the lower levels, he has to get nerfed as he has too much impact on a game. That's why he got recently nerfed.

He's like the jungle version of Renekton but even more extreme. Bad late game (Shaco's is nonexistent) so has to be an early game bully which becomes overpowered because he bullies too hard. But they can't nerf his early game without improving his late game without severely hurting the champion and they can't boost his late game because of his kit making his early game very strong even if he's given lower number tuning.

He's a wreck and was listed by Stonewall as one of the game's most toxic champions. Toxic champion design is design in which a champion has too much going for them and due to possible extremes in their kit or frustrating design, is an absolute balancing nightmare. They can float between under and overpowered with as simple as an item change (start of S3 with Liandry's Teemo,) metas shifts can force them to be useless or complete gods (Irelia, Vladimir,) or have a kit that is so frustrating to play against that it almost can't be viable competitively (Shaco, Teemo, old Evelynn, Yorick, Heimerdinger.)


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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullettime7 View Post
Personally think Shaco is a candidate for a rework. Shaco has never been truly balanced. He's always floating between under and overpowered due to his kit design and despite popular in high end solo queue (esp in KR) hasn't seen pro player in forever.

He has no late game at all. He's built like a melee carry and gets absolutely melted or he goes bruiser Shaco and does no damage. This means Shaco has to splitpush no matter how fed he gets.

Because he has NO late game, he has to have a dominant early game. Except his early game strength comes, not from numbers, but from his kit. Stealth blinks for level 2 ganks, boxes for jungle invasion, etc. Then because he's so dominant at the lower levels, he has to get nerfed as he has too much impact on a game. That's why he got recently nerfed.

He's like the jungle version of Renekton but even more extreme. Bad late game (Shaco's is nonexistent) so has to be an early game bully which becomes overpowered because he bullies too hard. But they can't nerf his early game without improving his late game without severely hurting the champion and they can't boost his late game because of his kit making his early game very strong even if he's given lower number tuning.

He's a wreck and was listed by Stonewall as one of the game's most toxic champions. Toxic champion design is design in which a champion has too much going for them and due to possible extremes in their kit or frustrating design, is an absolute balancing nightmare. They can float between under and overpowered with as simple as an item change (start of S3 with Liandry's Teemo,) metas shifts can force them to be useless or complete gods (Irelia, Vladimir,) or have a kit that is so frustrating to play against that it almost can't be viable competitively (Shaco, Teemo, old Evelynn, Yorick, Heimerdinger.)
I certainly think he's a candidate for a rework, which is what sparked my curiousity ^^. I wondered what Riot's opinion on the matter is.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepr0owns View Post
He stomps at plat and has an above average win rate in fact win rate wise hes stronger then zed and riven.
His early game is honestly overrated. It's only considered good (And make no mistake, it is a solid early game) because it's mechanically powerful. Statistically, it's almost lackluster to be fully honest, thanks to his extensive (Longest in LoL) nerf history. There are currently champions stronger and scarier than Shaco early game out there that also have a relevant late game. The last nerf was completely unnecessary and still hurt quite a bit.

They took SEVERAL shots at his early game over time, which is the point of using him, but left his late game in its terrible state that it is still currently in. The value of his early game has diminished and is honestly no longer worth the trade of having almost no late game unless mind-bendingly fed.


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phosphoricducks

Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullettime7 View Post
Personally think Shaco is a candidate for a rework. Shaco has never been truly balanced. He's always floating between under and overpowered due to his kit design and despite popular in high end solo queue (esp in KR) hasn't seen pro player in forever.

He has no late game at all. He's built like a melee carry and gets absolutely melted or he goes bruiser Shaco and does no damage. This means Shaco has to splitpush no matter how fed he gets.

Because he has NO late game, he has to have a dominant early game. Except his early game strength comes, not from numbers, but from his kit. Stealth blinks for level 2 ganks, boxes for jungle invasion, etc. Then because he's so dominant at the lower levels, he has to get nerfed as he has too much impact on a game. That's why he got recently nerfed.

He's like the jungle version of Renekton but even more extreme. Bad late game (Shaco's is nonexistent) so has to be an early game bully which becomes overpowered because he bullies too hard. But they can't nerf his early game without improving his late game without severely hurting the champion and they can't boost his late game because of his kit making his early game very strong even if he's given lower number tuning.

He's a wreck and was listed by Stonewall as one of the game's most toxic champions. Toxic champion design is design in which a champion has too much going for them and due to possible extremes in their kit or frustrating design, is an absolute balancing nightmare. They can float between under and overpowered with as simple as an item change (start of S3 with Liandry's Teemo,) metas shifts can force them to be useless or complete gods (Irelia, Vladimir,) or have a kit that is so frustrating to play against that it almost can't be viable competitively (Shaco, Teemo, old Evelynn, Yorick, Heimerdinger.)
Youve never gone against a full six build Shaco. He makes anything a 2v1, and boxes OP.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by phosphoricducks View Post
Youve never gone against a full six build Shaco. He makes anything a 2v1, and boxes OP.
Any fed champion is OP, even the likes of Fiora. That's not a valid argument.

Though frequently, a fed Shaco will still splitpush. Lol.


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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-09-2013

Bump


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Troy242621

Senior Member

06-11-2013

Bump


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