My first go as AP Shaco.

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Rammus Said ImOK

Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Ad hominem attacks work wonders.

AP Shaco 'can' work, in the same sense that Tank Teemo can work. You can win with a terrible build. That doesn't make it good.

AP Shaco got nerfed into oblivion some...6 months ago?
The downvotes on all your posts show how many people agree with you.

AP shaco is preferred on TT and with a good laning partner like blitzcrank or just good ol' baiting you can destroy anyone in seconds without ever putting yourself in danger.

AD+Crit shaco is too easy to counter and burst down and near useless in a team fight with competent enemies. his best attribute is that if the cc's are timed poorly he can blink and run better than anyone besides maybe akali with flash or kassadin


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post
All I'm trying to say is, that just because a build is not run-of-the-mill, OMG best build evar must use on a champ, does not mean it's not "Competitively viable." For the most part, people won't even have seen that build as often, so even though it lacks in power, it gains the factor that people may not know how to fight it as well. People playing against my Tank Swain focused me because they were thinking "Oh look, a caster, let's burst him down first." Well, they failed, because I was building tank, and was not the real threat."
Sounds like they were bad enough to never check your items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post

And the "ad hominem attacks." First was just my opinion of AD champs in general, Second was just because playing Ranked is VERY different from playing Normal. Watching streams does not even begin to show you what the atmosphere is like. Seeing as I've only scratched the surface, I may not know much, but seeing that you haven't even glanced made me question your use of the word "competitive"
The fact is that when you're using personal characteristics of a person to discredit their argument you're doing nothing but ignoring the topic and attacking the person.

I may have never played Ranked Soloqueue, but when it's considered a joke by at least a handful of 'competitive' and/or 'high ELO' players, I hardly see it as a reasonable thing to base a player's knowledge. Not that a solo queue in a team game is any way to judge a player in the first place.

If you'd like, I could go play 300 ranked soloqueue games and my argument would still hold just as much weight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammus Said ImOK View Post
The downvotes on all your posts show how many people agree with you.

AP shaco is preferred on TT and with a good laning partner like blitzcrank or just good ol' baiting you can destroy anyone in seconds without ever putting yourself in danger.

AD+Crit shaco is too easy to counter and burst down and near useless in a team fight with competent enemies. his best attribute is that if the cc's are timed poorly he can blink and run better than anyone besides maybe akali with flash or kassadin
People disagreeing with me != My argument is invalid.

When did TT come up in this issue? The OP was talking about a 5's game to my knowledge.

And besides, Shaco can kill people on TT? Isn't this the map that's perpetually stuck in a meta of tanky heroes?


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Kagetenshi

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Sounds like they were bad enough to never check your items.



The fact is that when you're using personal characteristics of a person to discredit their argument you're doing nothing but ignoring the topic and attacking the person.

I may have never played Ranked Soloqueue, but when it's considered a joke by at least a handful of 'competitive' and/or 'high ELO' players, I hardly see it as a reasonable thing to base a player's knowledge. Not that a solo queue in a team game is any way to judge a player in the first place.

If you'd like, I could go play 300 ranked soloqueue games and my argument would still hold just as much weight.
First Ranked game was with a premade, I'm not that stupid.

And you're basically "Ad hominem" attacking AP Shaco. I doubt you've tried him more than once or twice, failed to facestomp with him, and threw him away as terrible. That, or listen to those "High ELO" players (True fact: They're High. You and I aren't. What's viable and what's not are completely different.)


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post
First Ranked game was with a premade, I'm not that stupid.

And you're basically "Ad hominem" attacking AP Shaco. I doubt you've tried him more than once or twice, failed to facestomp with him, and threw him away as terrible. That, or listen to those "High ELO" players (True fact: They're High. You and I aren't. What's viable and what's not are completely different.)
I actually adored playing AP Shaco when he was OP/"good", and I've played him quite a few times since then.

I'm basing AP Shaco's arguments off of his personal characteristics? I'm just that good.

True fact: They're high. Neither of us are. What we say won't change anything about competitive play, but we sure can comment/make observations based off of it. To assume that we cannot is naive. That means I can say "Well, he doesn't see play in competitive play. So he's likely to be bad in competitive play" and my personal experiences back that up.


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Kagetenshi

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
I actually adored playing AP Shaco when he was OP/"good", and I've played him quite a few times since then.

I'm basing AP Shaco's arguments off of his personal characteristics? I'm just that good.

True fact: They're high. Neither of us are. What we say won't change anything about competitive play, but we sure can comment/make observations based off of it. To assume that we cannot is naive. That means I can say "Well, he doesn't see play in competitive play. So he's likely to be bad in competitive play" and my personal experiences back that up.
So are you saying you're one of the people who play with FotM's and like to facestomp, and when they're nerfed you move on? Honestly, I don't care what you call this, but I just don't like that. Too many people think a nerf means it's the end of the world for a character/build, and it's just not true.

And my "personal experience" is that strange builds DO work in competitive play. Everyone's experiences are different, I base mine off of what I actually experience, not just what I assume based on patch notes.


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post
So are you saying you're one of the people who play with FotM's and like to facestomp, and when they're nerfed you move on? Honestly, I don't care what you call this, but I just don't like that. Too many people think a nerf means it's the end of the world for a character/build, and it's just not true.

And my "personal experience" is that strange builds DO work in competitive play. Everyone's experiences are different, I base mine off of what I actually experience, not just what I assume based on patch notes.
Strawman argument. Can you stop with the logical fallacies? I liked playing with AP Shaco when it was something I could pick without knowing I'm letting my team down. Too many nerfs are the ends for characters/builds.

And I think the term you're looking for is "People that play heroes that are strong in the current metagame" See: Playing to win.

You're entitled to your experiences, but implying I don't play this game is absurd. I actually have just under 100 normal wins more than you. If I don't play the game like you claim, I have just as much right to claim that you don't.

And for reference, you know the first thing when the patch notes that AD Ezreal got nerfed came out? I played him for half a dozen games in normals to confirm my theorycraft; that he'd been nerfed hard enough to render him obselete as a carry.

Regardless, this isn't going anywhere and is just becoming a case of "You're wrong. No you're wrong. NO, you're wrong." ad infinium.


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Kagetenshi

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Stawman argument. Can you stop with the logical fallacies?
Now you're just being a dude with an inflated head. "Look at me, I talk with LOGIC, I must be correct and use big words to back it up!"

Actions speak louder than words, don't knock it till you try it, *insert proverb about experiencing something before you theorycraft here*.

I ended at that statement, because you proved you are not worth my time. I'm gone.


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Retroromanic

Senior Member

11-19-2010

"And you're basically "Ad hominem" attacking AP Shaco."

Too bad forums don't allow signatures.


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Fantastiballs

Senior Member

11-19-2010

This thread. Stop it.


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Milkshakes00

Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantastiballs View Post
This thread. Stop it.
This thread is now about silly dogs.