My first go as AP Shaco.

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SomeGuyAtADesk

Member

11-19-2010

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you can win with a terrible build. That doesn't make it good.
qft.


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Ikoriil View Post
Pretty sure it's not possible to have 10 simultaneous JitB at level 8.
You're right. You can have a maximum of 6 JitBs with 0% CDR. And even then, one will dissapear the instant you cast that, so it's really 5.

With 40% CDR you can have a maximum of 9, assuming you drop them for the entire ~90 seconds.


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Skwid1g

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Not really?

Are you actually...implying AP Shaco isn't terrible?
Depends on what you mean by "terrible."

He's far from great, but it's not like getting an AP Urgot on your team.


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post
Just because something got nerfed into oblivion does not mean it's useless.

I've won with some of the most unimaginable things, not because the opponents were baddies, but because adapting to a playstyle is one of the things I'm good at. If you can figure out what you need to do to be successful, you can build anything (Except AP Garen)
I think you're confusing useless and terrible. AP Shaco has a use in that it's fun, but it's a terrible build for anything outside of messing around with some friends/trolling in normals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwid1g View Post
Depends on what you mean by "terrible."
Competitive viability (what I mean by terrible) and winning a normal aren't the same thing.

And hey, you could win a game as AP Garen...against really bad people or bots.


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Kagetenshi

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Competitive viability (what I mean by terrible) and winning a normal aren't the same thing.
My very first ranked game, our team lacked a tank and my teammates were all squishies. The only ones I had played before were banned, so in desperation I picked Swain, who I had normally built glass cannon, and decided to try him as a tank. (This was a few days after he was released.)

I ended up going 3/3/9 that game, and we won handily because I would rush in and root the carries, letting ours get to them. I built pure Tank items, Randuin's, Merc's, and Banshee's Veil.

Anything is possible in this game if you can just adapt.


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post
My very first ranked game, our team lacked a tank and my teammates were all squishies. The only ones I had played before were banned, so in desperation I picked Swain, who I had normally built glass cannon, and decided to try him as a tank. (This was a few days after he was released.)

I ended up going 3/3/9 that game, and we won handily because I would rush in and root the carries, letting ours get to them. I built pure Tank items, Randuin's, Merc's, and Banshee's Veil.

Anything is possible in this game if you can just adapt.
Funnily enough, Swain is generally built as a tanky caster now. I think this was a case of "You found a better, albeit not optimal build". He's very sub-par as a squishy, due to a single ignite being able to burst him down.


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Kagetenshi

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Funnily enough, Swain is generally built as a tanky caster now. I think this was a case of "You found a better, albeit not optimal build". He's very sub-par as a squishy, due to a single ignite being able to burst him down.
I was not playing as a tanky caster, however, I was playing a TANK. I ran in with my ult, and CC'ed the carries as much as possible. I was using tank runes, and tank masteries. I was playing with the mindset of a tank, because that was what was needed.

When playing as "squishy" Swain, however, I have VERY often shut down the opposing middle lane, outleveling them by 2, or even 3 levels before laning phase is over. However, these are normal games, just because I haven't played many ranked, and you will probably call me a "Baddie" because of it.

My final point is, it is not the build that makes a champion, but the player behind the build.

EDIT: Nevermind, I fail to see ANY ranked games on your profile, so I don't even know why you're talking about "competitive viability" like you know something.


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Laeterna

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Kagetenshi View Post
I was not playing as a tanky caster, however, I was playing a TANK. I ran in with my ult, and CC'ed the carries as much as possible. I was using tank runes, and tank masteries. I was playing with the mindset of a tank, because that was what was needed.

When playing as "squishy" Swain, however, I have VERY often shut down the opposing middle lane, outleveling them by 2, or even 3 levels before laning phase is over. However, these are normal games, just because I haven't played many ranked, and you will probably call me a "Baddie" because of it.

My final point is, it is not the build that makes a champion, but the player behind the build.
Hey, good players play normals. I occasionally see a high ELO player with a Normal in their match history.

I understood what you're saying, a hero with a lot of CC such as Swain could somewhat play a hard tank (as in nothing but tanky items) role due to his pair of CC skills, though his ultimate would be woefully weak without mana regeneration to support it.

"It's not the build that makes a champion, but the player behind the build." is just ludicrous. By that logic, a really good player (define that as what you will, it's irrelevant) could play tank Ezreal and do it successfully, and have it be competitively viable. The fact of the matter is that heroes are built certain ways for a reason; they're good at certain things and are itemized accordingly.

Edit: What's with the ad hominem attacks? My playing of ranked games is seperate to the arguement I'm putting forth.


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Kagetenshi

Senior Member

11-19-2010

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Originally Posted by Laeterna View Post
Hey, good players play normals. I occasionally see a high ELO player with a Normal in their match history.

I understood what you're saying, a hero with a lot of CC such as Swain could somewhat play a hard tank (as in nothing but tanky items) role due to his pair of CC skills, though his ultimate would be woefully weak without mana regeneration to support it.

"It's not the build that makes a champion, but the player behind the build." is just ludicrous. By that logic, a really good player (define that as what you will, it's irrelevant) could play tank Ezreal and do it successfully, and have it be competitively viable. The fact of the matter is that heroes are built certain ways for a reason; they're good at certain things and are itemized accordingly.

Edit: What's with the ad hominem attacks? My playing of ranked games is seperate to the arguement I'm putting forth.
All I'm trying to say is, that just because a build is not run-of-the-mill, OMG best build evar must use on a champ, does not mean it's not "Competitively viable." For the most part, people won't even have seen that build as often, so even though it lacks in power, it gains the factor that people may not know how to fight it as well. People playing against my Tank Swain focused me because they were thinking "Oh look, a caster, let's burst him down first." Well, they failed, because I was building tank, and was not the real threat.

And the "ad hominem attacks." First was just my opinion of AD champs in general, Second was just because playing Ranked is VERY different from playing Normal. Watching streams does not even begin to show you what the atmosphere is like. Seeing as I've only scratched the surface, I may not know much, but seeing that you haven't even glanced made me question your use of the word "competitive"


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Suddenly Corgis

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Senior Member

11-19-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikoriil View Post
Pretty sure it's not possible to have 10 simultaneous JitB at level 8.
i was about to say... unless your CD for it is less than 9 seconds you cant.