Q: AP or Damage Teemo?

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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-01-2010

If were ever to get Teemo, I'd go for AP build every time. There's a simple reason for this: almost anything DPS Teemo can do, Tristana can do better. Better harass, longer range, more damage, better chase, better farming. Only good thing about DPS Teemo is the blind - and you get that if you go AP. Move Quick screams hit-and-run to me.

Besides, unless Leaguecraft's numbers are all wrong, getting up to 100 damage per second over five seconds from a passive is kind of broken.


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Melonyan

Senior Member

01-01-2010

I really don't agree with trist being better at harass than Teemo. In fact, one of the heroes that I find outlanes trist(and there isn't many) is Teemo, especially if you're smart enough to stand over mushrooms when you know trist is going to rocket jump. It's hilarious to see a trist think she's going to rocket jump in for a kill only to land on a mushroom, eat a blinding dart and then get owned. A good teemo can be absolute hell to lane against and really I think he's an underrated hero right now. I don't see much of him though he's extremely good when played right.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-01-2010

If they're using Rocket Jump for harass, they're doing it wrong. Teemo is very good, I agree, but ever since he was free and I was facing him every match in mid (thank god that's over -_-), I worked out a fairly solid way of not only holding my own, but actually winning the lane. At early levels, Explosive Shot > Blinding Dart as a harass. She's got more range base (and that only increases...) for autoattack harassing, and Explosive's passive discourages you from standing around your creeps. Rocket Jump makes her very hard to pin down for a finisher if she does make a mistake, and an Explosive/Rocket/Buster combo will not leave you feeling healthy, even if it kills her mana.

But Teemo is definitely good. Not many champs make my heart sink on the loading screen like he does, and I'd comfortably rate him as the second best solo mid, maybe tied with Fiddle. Hell, a really good Teemo will hold his own quite nicely against me, which almost no other champ can do.


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Daikaze

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Go hybrid... Malady, Nashor, and Guinsoo. This gives you +ap, +attack speed, and a bit of extra damage. The other items are filled in on an "as needed" basis.


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Melonyan

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basilisk9466 View Post
If they're using Rocket Jump for harass, they're doing it wrong. Teemo is very good, I agree, but ever since he was free and I was facing him every match in mid (thank god that's over -_-), I worked out a fairly solid way of not only holding my own, but actually winning the lane. At early levels, Explosive Shot > Blinding Dart as a harass. She's got more range base (and that only increases...) for autoattack harassing, and Explosive's passive discourages you from standing around your creeps. Rocket Jump makes her very hard to pin down for a finisher if she does make a mistake, and an Explosive/Rocket/Buster combo will not leave you feeling healthy, even if it kills her mana.

But Teemo is definitely good. Not many champs make my heart sink on the loading screen like he does, and I'd comfortably rate him as the second best solo mid, maybe tied with Fiddle. Hell, a really good Teemo will hold his own quite nicely against me, which almost no other champ can do.
I never said they'd herass with rocket jump, if you were reading I said "going in for the kill". If you're good with Teemo the best way to get a kill is sometimes to make the enemy cocky enough to try and kill you, then surprise them in the end with a well-placed mushroom and/or blinding dart. After doing this once they often become absolutely terrified of you and you can really do whatever you want in the lane. You won't out-harass a teemo just by dropping explosive shots on him, and if he times his blinding dart right he can easily beat you out with his ranged attacks.

I happen to have played a lot of Tristana and she's easily the highest win-rate character I have. I'd say I'm well over 80% with her after at least 30 games. With that said theres still nobody in the game I'd rather not lane against than Teemo. I'd rather lane against another trist personally. Believing Tristana brings more to the team than Teemo is one thing, but believing Trist out-lanes Teemo is another. The first I believe to be quite possibly true, but the later I don't agree on. While trist can lane against Teemo and do just fine, not die etc. Teemo is the one other character that isn't likely to become my ***** when I'm playing trist solo mid, and can come out ahead if he plays it right.

Also I disagree 100% with AP teemo and think AP teemo is awful and you should play someone else. If you're one of the players who think he's vastly inferior to trist at so many things, just play trist, don't play an AP teemo.

I'll admit though I might be a bit biased, because I'm extremely aggresive in lane. I'm always trying to kill the other person, so knowing Teemo has such good turnaround abilities makes him seem stronger to me. If I'm mirror laned against another trist, if I'm in a situation where I think I can kill her, it's because I'm about to kill her unless she has a great escape planned. Against a Teemo you can't always be so sure. I may be giving him too much credit but to me, trist is over-rated as the god of laning and Teemo is at least a league above her.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Fair enough, I accept the point. I've become a bit jaded and die-hard about Trist recently, since it doesn't seem like many play her, and I've played with/against almost no good Trists, but if you've played both extensively, I bow to your superior knowledge.

I'm still not convinced that Teemo is outright superior for laning, but we can at least agree that however you rank them, Teemo is an absolute ***** to face. I never said he was bad, by any standard.


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Melonyan

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Actually I'm not going to lie. I've played a lot as trist, but I've only played Teemo a few times when he was free. Also I hadn't faced him solo mid that much, only a few times, but he's the only hero I have ever considered myself to have "lost" the lane against as Tristana. I came out on top more than enough times, but most of the times I credited it to the Teemo being awful.

This is why I conceded the bit at the end about possibly being biased. It could just be because of my playstyle that Teemo seems the better at least in harassing. Perhaps if you play more conservatively you can outrange him and avoid taking damage enough to stay ahead on hp. But from my experience against a really good Teemo is that he can ussually trade hits with you and then easily come out on top with well-timed blinding darts. I may be wrong and Trist could actually be better, but it's a **** good fight thats for sure.

Also, after typing all this I'm really tempted to buy Teemo as my next hero, so that I can finally decide for sure and because this discussion just happened to hype me up on playing him. Though as of right now my stance is that Teemo is better at early game lane-harassment, and if anyone asked me off-hand in chat or whatever, thats what I'd tell them.

Oh and I can completely understand being a die-hard trist fan, I am one as well. She was my absolute favourite hero for a long time, though right now Katarina seems to be my number one girl.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Ahh. Well, it's true that you need to be a bit more conservative against Teemo. If you just straight exchange abilities before backing off, Explosive does more damage. Blind will rape you if you stick around, as he gets free shots. Keep trading abilities, then make use of the fact that you have a bigger overall nuke with rocket as a finisher.


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Melonyan

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Well, it was less the abilitiy damage and more the fact that he just seems to out damage you with auto attacks thanks to the poison. If you go in for an auto attack, the range difference isn't great enough so he can basically always get one back on you. If he blinds after that you can only move back and he can possibly get an additional attack in while you move out of range. Though if you simply anticipated him to always do this and just attacked then quickly and immediately moved back again after an explosive shot you may be able to avoid this. At most he should only get one attack in, and possibly the blinding dart. If the explosive shot outdpses the dart like you said you may be ahead this way. Honestly when I play trist and I decide to harass someone with her cannon I generally shoot until they back off or I'm losing the damage trade somehow, and I'm not scared to do this against anyone except Teemo or possibly Annie especially after I have buster shot.


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Basilisk9466

Senior Member

01-01-2010

Kind of going off topic here, so I'll make it brief, but the key point when harassing with Trist which makes her so deadly is that autoattacks just aren't needed unless you're against someone tough, who inevitably (with a few exceptions) will not be able to counterattack. Just spam Explosive if they come near, then back off. Soften them up. Fighting Teemo with autoattacks will make you lose. At low levels, Trist is all about the abilities; late game, her abilities are rather meh, but her damage makes up for it.