[Guide] Kassadin

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kijik

Senior Member

02-22-2010

Kush I can see the reasoning for leveling NS over FP.

but here's my reasonings for leveling FP over NS.

1. Kass is very mana starved early, especially if you're building right and not getting that tear of the goddess ****, tricking you into thinking you can stay in a fight and spam risking getting blasted on. NS mana increases per level, FP doesn't.
2. FP is aoe, and a touch more spammable in team fights, not to mention if they're running, and you have to rift walk too many times to catch them due to them not being slowed much, you'll run oom.
3. 2 levels of NS, lvl 2 and 4, is generally enough before 6, then you get another lvl at 7, and you have a pretty hefty silence right there, or atleast enough of one.
4. it really sucks as a silence 90% of the time, it makes a great fiddle/nunu interrupter, AFTER he starts to channel the OMGWTF ult. in that case you don't need a bunch of levels in it, just something to break the channel.
5. Smart usage, that's all it takes, really.


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AFKray

Senior Member

02-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kijik View Post
Kush I can see the reasoning for leveling NS over FP.

but here's my reasonings for leveling FP over NS.

1. Kass is very mana starved early, especially if you're building right and not getting that tear of the goddess ****, tricking you into thinking you can stay in a fight and spam risking getting blasted on. NS mana increases per level, FP doesn't.
2. FP is aoe, and a touch more spammable in team fights, not to mention if they're running, and you have to rift walk too many times to catch them due to them not being slowed much, you'll run oom.
3. 2 levels of NS, lvl 2 and 4, is generally enough before 6, then you get another lvl at 7, and you have a pretty hefty silence right there, or atleast enough of one.
4. it really sucks as a silence 90% of the time, it makes a great fiddle/nunu interrupter, AFTER he starts to channel the OMGWTF ult. in that case you don't need a bunch of levels in it, just something to break the channel.
5. Smart usage, that's all it takes, really.
I will take your reasoning and raise you!

1. Yes, while he is mana starved, he is not exactly a prime harasser, especially as you stated, he isn't going Tear. So, it means the burst damage is key, so I would say the mana problem is a moot point.

2. FP is amazing and fantastic as an AoE, but having that length on silence has literally meant the difference between living and dying for me. Since you excel in surpise burst ganks due to Riftwalk, being able to contain the enemy for a long enough time to avoid his counter nuke is huge.

3. Normally chasing an enemy means you'll be in range, then not. Then rift again, get in range, then not. If you are chasing, and they are not Nidalee, chances are they are not using skills. Force Pulse won't be up after the first burst and so I rely on my consistent, non-skill required damage, for a chasedown. Also, the slow isn't exactly a huge difference. As I said before, unless it's Nidalee, the normal leveling of FP provides more than enough slow.

4. I think you severely underestimate the usage of silence. It wins games. it can spell the difference between Tryn or Alistar getting their ultimate off to save their ass. You can use it during a "kill command" when against a Kayle to provide that much needed extra time before her ult goes on that focused target. Also, you can't use summoner spells while silenced, so imagine the possibilities there.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

02-22-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kijik View Post
Kush I can see the reasoning for leveling NS over FP.

but here's my reasonings for leveling FP over NS.

1. Kass is very mana starved early, especially if you're building right and not getting that tear of the goddess ****, tricking you into thinking you can stay in a fight and spam risking getting blasted on. NS mana increases per level, FP doesn't.
2. FP is aoe, and a touch more spammable in team fights, not to mention if they're running, and you have to rift walk too many times to catch them due to them not being slowed much, you'll run oom.
3. 2 levels of NS, lvl 2 and 4, is generally enough before 6, then you get another lvl at 7, and you have a pretty hefty silence right there, or atleast enough of one.
4. it really sucks as a silence 90% of the time, it makes a great fiddle/nunu interrupter, AFTER he starts to channel the OMGWTF ult. in that case you don't need a bunch of levels in it, just something to break the channel.
5. Smart usage, that's all it takes, really.

I'm sure you've tried tear already but I dunno, I say give it another try. Having tear lets you kite so much better. It lets you riftwalk multiple times around team battles, around and through walls, get to their soft carry in the back and take him out, and then still be able to escape with your rift stacked to 6+. I don't get it to "solve mana problems" for harassing early game. I get it to make full use of Kassadin's potential which I have a hard time believing does not revolve around riftwalk, a mana stacking move mind you.

I've tried Catalyst many times and I always find myself starving for mana and unable to contribute as effectively as I could have if I had gotten a tear.


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PineappleThis

Senior Member

02-23-2010

I think the issue with Kassadin as solo mid has to do with experience. I've played a lot of Kassadin and I enjoy him a lot but I (in agreement with Sniperness) never take solo mid as I don't think he can do very well, farming wise against the typical ranged solos.

But obviously with enough experience and knowledge about how to use him people can make him work. But the general theory would be that unless someone has at least 30-50? games of experience he can't just pick him up and make kass work as a solo, where as ashe/twitch/tf can all be played decently as a solo on your first or second try.


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Quick Sand

Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
lol, you still don't understand, that's fine though. I'll make one last attempt and leave it at that.

Again, he's not a "fine solo" either for reasons already stated. Nothing more I can do to get you to understand that.

And you're telling me his job is to kill the other solo? I'm assuming you meant he specializes in that or is good at since, duh, anyone wants to kill other heroes. If that's the case then that was the most absurd comment you've made because until level 6 he can't do jack **** against the other solo. If you think otherwise you play against terrible solo mids then. Add me and play against my Trist or TF and then tell me your job is to kill me while I'm pushing your tower so hard it's being shoved halfway up your ass.

"I've played over 150 games with Kass and all but maybe ten weren't solo, so this is not a case of anecdotal evidence. I just don't want to play him if I'm not solo. "

Lol, you sir are a very very selfish player then. I never take solo as Kassadin because I can accept the fact he's not good at it/am not so greedy as to only care about getting more exp faster than my teammates.

"The point is, if you get a fed [Inset any champion here] mid (which is very possible from game-to-game) with a good [--group--of--pushers--and--a--tank--in--your--] team you're set. This makes him an acceptable solo, period."

I lol'd at you thinking this supported Kass solo mid.
Stop being ignorant. Kassadin has a far better chance to get fed early than any hero I've ever played - that is the point of the getting fed comments. Sure he can't farm nearly as well as many heroes but he can harass if done smartly and stay on par with the other hero as far as creep kills.

If you think he can't get a kill before level 6 then you're not doing it right. And if you would read I already said Tristana is a great counter as he is to basically every solo. And Twisted Fate is broken so grats on choosing him.

I'm not selfish at all. If there is a better solo on my team I don't even pick Kassadin. And if someone doesn't want me to solo with him I just get someone else. As simple as that.

Happy flaming!


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Empyron

Senior Member

02-23-2010

I think too many people focus on RW as Kassadin's main source of damage. It's nice to last hit with, good for escaping and pwning creeps and building FP, but stacking mana is the wrong way to go on Kassadin imo. You're better off getting catalyst and stacking AP/spell penetration like it's your birthday.


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AIM7Sparrow

Senior Member

02-23-2010

As for my bracket, I get matched up with Kocosephia and Sockbox, 1880s. Have also played against Neil Patrick Harris several times (1949) and RiotGuinsoo, (pretty sure it's the smurf account of Guinsoo seeing as he was lv 30 with 40 wins.)

As for back to the discussion at hand, first I have to address Empyron that actually no I don't think anyone focuses on riftwalk for damage, lol. I mean, if it's stacked to 3 or 4 then sure go ahead and aim it for them but in all honesty Force Pulse is your main damage source not riftwalk.

Quicksand, it seems like you're taking my comments very personally which I don't understand. Never intended to flame but for some reason if I did my bad. I don't know where you're getting this information from but "Kassadin has a far better chance to get fed early than any hero I've ever played," is just really completely wrong. Especially since you throw in the "If you think he can't get a kill before level 6 then you're not doing it right," comment. It seems like you have a very low standard for the people you solo mid against if that's how you feel about Kass's early game potential. Just off the top of my head heroes that can get first blood easier: Tristanna, Twisted Fate, Twitch, Annie, Veigar, Karthus, Ashe, Nidalee. I'm sure there are many others if I opened the champion list and looked through it.

Kass has an 8 second cooldown Null Sphere and you definitely aren't going to get to use Force Pulse more than once in a 1v1 fight pre-level 6. Now explain to me how THAT, vs. someone like Annie, with her stun, 2 nukes, one of which is 4s, the other of which doesn't need charges, and ranged attack, is less capable than Kassadin at scoring first blood? There really is not explanation although I already know what you are likely to type back.

Again, it seems like you take my comments against Kassadin as personal attacks against yourself and I encourage you to not be so sensitive to the things I am saying. After all, as I like to say, we're all on the same side here, finding the best way to play our characters. =D


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Quick Sand

Member

02-23-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperness View Post
As for my bracket, I get matched up with Kocosephia and Sockbox, 1880s. Have also played against Neil Patrick Harris several times (1949) and RiotGuinsoo, (pretty sure it's the smurf account of Guinsoo seeing as he was lv 30 with 40 wins.)

As for back to the discussion at hand, first I have to address Empyron that actually no I don't think anyone focuses on riftwalk for damage, lol. I mean, if it's stacked to 3 or 4 then sure go ahead and aim it for them but in all honesty Force Pulse is your main damage source not riftwalk.

Quicksand, it seems like you're taking my comments very personally which I don't understand. Never intended to flame but for some reason if I did my bad. I don't know where you're getting this information from but "Kassadin has a far better chance to get fed early than any hero I've ever played," is just really completely wrong. Especially since you throw in the "If you think he can't get a kill before level 6 then you're not doing it right," comment. It seems like you have a very low standard for the people you solo mid against if that's how you feel about Kass's early game potential. Just off the top of my head heroes that can get first blood easier: Tristanna, Twisted Fate, Twitch, Annie, Veigar, Karthus, Ashe, Nidalee. I'm sure there are many others if I opened the champion list and looked through it.

Kass has an 8 second cooldown Null Sphere and you definitely aren't going to get to use Force Pulse more than once in a 1v1 fight pre-level 6. Now explain to me how THAT, vs. someone like Annie, with her stun, 2 nukes, one of which is 4s, the other of which doesn't need charges, and ranged attack, is less capable than Kassadin at scoring first blood? There really is not explanation although I already know what you are likely to type back.

Again, it seems like you take my comments against Kassadin as personal attacks against yourself and I encourage you to not be so sensitive to the things I am saying. After all, as I like to say, we're all on the same side here, finding the best way to play our characters. =D
Fair enough, all I ever did was support the way I play Kassadin after being told it doesn't work. I'm all for people playing him differently and I just do what works for me. I could respond to some of your other points with how it plays out in my elo bracket etc. (I play some top 500 from last elo list from time to time) but its no need to go into it. I will say Annie is my favorite solo to face as Kassadin but she has a steep learning curve so I'm inclined to think I haven't faced a good one.