@Riot: What's the deal with Healers in this game?

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Lockedbob

Senior Member

12-09-2009

Hello,

I'm not the typical guy jerking off Katarina and Ashe 90% of my games so I like to get my hands on a tank or healer most of the time and after playing Soraka and Taric for a while I'm wondering WHY would I do that at all? Seriously ever played WoW or Dota? Healers there would smash faces. Purist and dazzle in dota had serious damage whether from spells or from auto-attack combined with some intel physical items(e.g.: Orchid Malevolence). Ontop of that don't know how many of you played rogues in WoW and cried like little babies cause you couldn't take down a Resto druid/shaman, Disc priest etc you get my point.

Why the hell healers count for **** in this game? Soraka is completely shut down by 1 item or other 4 abilities which carries or wannabe carries have(gankplank, tristana, katarina and for items executioner's calling). I mean seriously that items debuffs you for a whole 12 seconds so you can't get healed. WHY? It's not like I have anything offensive so I can sit back and enjoy the 12 seconds while smacking that guy. What am I gonna do with soraka? Silence and /wave Tryndamere while he crits me for 600 a piece? A guy the other day was praised that he one-shot soraka using his Shaco. Why did you even implement healers at all if they're completely shut down? Twitch with executioner's calling debuffs the entire team while in ulti so I'm basically useless. Most fights end in 5 seconds let alone survive for the whole 12 seconds until the debuff wears off.

And please while replying to this post don't bring me counter arguments like 5 promotes with healers win games and stuff like that I mean a serious game and what does a healer do when he's debuffed or his tank is debuffed considering that it's so easy to counter a healer.

tl;dr: Healers or "Support" champions should be able to hold their own and not get completely massacred in a few hits by most carries. Also considering that for at least two champions two out of 4 abilities are heals they should not get gimped by 65% by simply spamming autoattacks when you have no option of removing the respective debuff long enough for it to count.

EDIT: There the tl:dr is now shorter.


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Tram

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Senior Member

12-09-2009

As support, not as one man armies.

Tryndamere killing you? Well he is dps, you're support. Working as intended.


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Crunx

Senior Member

12-09-2009

Well, as you brought up wow... making healing viable actually creates a ridiculous amount of balance issues.

you either balance around them being able to heal through the 50-65% debuff, and then that item becomes necessary for every DPS champion in the game, or you balance them around not having the debuff present and that debuff just destroys their world.

Given my knowledge of dazzle and omni from DOTA, i prefer to have healers with a lesser role.


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Lockedbob

Senior Member

12-09-2009

So you're telling me that picking Soraka in a game is like wasting a champion slot for nothing right? Because I would do so much better with another carry or mage or w/e because you will debuff my tank or myself and I can't do jack.


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FrozenStorm

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Senior Member

12-09-2009

Executioner's can't be bought immediately, as someone like Soraka or Taric you should be dominating your lane if you can pair with a Tank, and ya if an enemy Twitch gets Exec's your effectiveness is decreased but Starcall and Mana or Stun / Armor with Soraka/Taric aren't exactly useless.

Healers in this game win games, maintained pushes on towers with Rally/Promote and health stacking are extremely tough to deal with. You do need some teamwork to do it but I don't think the Healers are as Underpowered as your estimating.

This isn't WoW, we're not looking for crazy geared priests to whollup Rogues, we're looking for Soraka to sustain a push and take some 'hibs.


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gutter

Senior Member

12-09-2009

Because "healers" in LoL should actually be called "support". They don't exist to just sit back and heal your team, they exist to utilize various abilities to tip the battle in your favor. Soraka has a heal that gives +armor, a silence OR mana replenisher in one ability, and a radial AoE damage + debuff that's spammable. Plus her ulti is another heal that works on your entire team regardless of where they are on the map.

If you expect to go in and just keep your entire team up by spamming heals then that's not what LoL has to offer. Both Soraka and Taric are blends of offensive and defensive support. Not "healers".

Oh, and both are also very good, so if you're not finding them effective you should look to mix up your playstyle.

P.S. - Your tl;dr was longer than your post up to that point...


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Lockedbob

Senior Member

12-09-2009

I forgot to add this but could you reply after you give this more than a full read? Try to understand what I'm saying first and yes I know you only play carries so you don't care whether it's logical or not but the consequence of providing people with a healing debuff which disables my whole champion is a wrong design decision. I mean look at stealth detection. Yes you detect him but he can still hit you and can still use his spells at full potential right?

Riot gief red post!!


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gutter

Senior Member

12-09-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockedbob View Post
I forgot to add this but could you reply after you give this more than a full read? Try to understand what I'm saying first and yes I know you only play carries so you don't care whether it's logical or not but the consequence of providing people with a healing debuff which disables my whole champion is a wrong design decision. I mean look at stealth detection. Yes you detect him but he can still hit you and can still use his spells at full potential right?

Riot gief red post!!
First off, it's a bit unreasonable to expect someone to give your post "more" than a full read. But even so, I DO understand what you're saying, and you clearly didn't give my post a full read and try to understand what I'M saying.

The actual "healing" part of the support classes is only a fraction of the class. It's incredibly useful, yes, but not the entire point. Executioner's Calling nullifies Soraka/Taric no more than Last Whisper nullifies Rammus. Yeah, it makes you less effective as a character, but if nothing else, you forced them to buy an item that they otherwise wouldn't have spent gold on. And you're still plenty effective.

And stealth detection DOES keep Twitch from using his abilities to their fullest. Oracle's Elixir cuts Ambush's potential usefulness in half, and all of his other abilities are only at their maximum effectiveness if you can get the unexpected jump. Sure, they're still plenty USEFUL even if the opponent has Oracle's, just like Soraka/Taric are still plenty useful if the opponent has Executioner's.


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Meta

Member

12-09-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockedbob View Post
I forgot to add this but could you reply after you give this more than a full read? Try to understand what I'm saying first and yes I know you only play carries so you don't care whether it's logical or not but the consequence of providing people with a healing debuff which disables my whole champion is a wrong design decision. I mean look at stealth detection. Yes you detect him but he can still hit you and can still use his spells at full potential right?

Riot gief red post!!
The thing you need to remember is that there are no characters in this game who's only purpose is to heal.

Soraka: Silence, AOE, MR-Debuff, Mana Restore
Taric: Stun, AOE, Tank/DPS

Sure, there are a few character that will reduce one of your aspects, but they can't keep the debuff up constantly, and it won't prevent you from using your characters' other abilities.

This game is based around counters. Every rock has it's paper. Healing is no different.

EDIT: Yeah... what gutter said.


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Opodomus

Senior Member

12-09-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lockedbob View Post
I forgot to add this but could you reply after you give this more than a full read? Try to understand what I'm saying first and yes I know you only play carries so you don't care whether it's logical or not but the consequence of providing people with a healing debuff which disables my whole champion is a wrong design decision. I mean look at stealth detection. Yes you detect him but he can still hit you and can still use his spells at full potential right?

Riot gief red post!!
People are reading your whole post and responding accordingly. If you're missing it, maybe you should give their posts "more than a full read."

Healing champions do much more than just heal, as pointed out. Your "whole champion" is not disabled. Only your healing abilities are affected, and they are only affected partially.

Also, healing reduction has a massive effect on people who only play carries. Lifesteal is also reduced.

Champions have abilities that shut down other champion abilities... working as intended. Good players adapt.

EDIT: Yeah, what Gutter and Meta said. Particularly the part about Last Whisper countering Rammus. I play Rammus all the time.


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