[Guide] Kayle - The Anti-Carry Angel

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Knuckle

Member

12-28-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindictiv View Post
what would you do against a Nidalee that max her heal 1st. Its good farming power since it adds alot of attack speed and should pretty much negate reckoning. At 50 mana a pop she wont run oom and is range.
If Nidalee maxes her heal first it's even easier to fight her, I just spam reckoning, the cooldown on reckoning is shorter than her heal I believe, and does more damage than she can heal through over time. I keep reckoning on as soon as it pops so she either gives up farming minions/exp or takes the nuke everytime its up. If she isnt trapping or using her long spear maxed out first its super easy to avoid getting hit by autoattack.

It's the same deal as fighting sivir, attrition over time while avoiding too much offensive damage but making sure to keep reckoning on all the time.


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KamikadzeTM

Member

12-31-2009

What do you do against Twich? i get owned by him


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WhiteMantisX

Member

12-31-2009

I must admit, that i don't understand this guide. So you take a non DPS class with good harassment abilities to stop their carry. And then you stand around the creeps, both getting no gold which hurts more for the carry. Ok, this makes a bit of sense to me.
But what is your carry doing? Farming in a 2 champion lane also getting less gold? O.o
I'm not a heavy Kayle player, but i played her once a while. Why exactly is she good for this job? I mean you can take almost every Ranged caster to harass the enemy.
I will try this guide and give you my conclusion then, but I really don't think that in higher ELO arranged games a carry like corki or ashe will be stopped by reckoning. Most of them have MUCH higher range than the reckoning, and i will take damage everytime they do.

But i will try this. Ah there was something more i wanted to ask:

1.) Kayle has not as much killing potential as other DPS classes. Why is Kayle better anti-carry then Katarina (Bouncing Blade), Sivir (Boomerang) and for example Twisted (Wild Card)?

2.) What do you do against Malphite? Your strategy doesn't work against him. (Mostly you won't find him mid lane alone i know)

Mantis


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Knuckle

Member

01-03-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteMantisX View Post
I must admit, that i don't understand this guide. So you take a non DPS class with good harassment abilities to stop their carry. And then you stand around the creeps, both getting no gold which hurts more for the carry. Ok, this makes a bit of sense to me.
But what is your carry doing? Farming in a 2 champion lane also getting less gold? O.o
I'm not a heavy Kayle player, but i played her once a while. Why exactly is she good for this job? I mean you can take almost every Ranged caster to harass the enemy.
I will try this guide and give you my conclusion then, but I really don't think that in higher ELO arranged games a carry like corki or ashe will be stopped by reckoning. Most of them have MUCH higher range than the reckoning, and i will take damage everytime they do.

But i will try this. Ah there was something more i wanted to ask:

1.) Kayle has not as much killing potential as other DPS classes. Why is Kayle better anti-carry then Katarina (Bouncing Blade), Sivir (Boomerang) and for example Twisted (Wild Card)?

2.) What do you do against Malphite? Your strategy doesn't work against him. (Mostly you won't find him mid lane alone i know)

Mantis
The only way to really understand the guide is to play it, yes there are trouble champs like katarina but you just have to outplay the more challenging heros, for the most part its an uphill battle for the opponent laning against you as kayles tactics deviate so far from the standard mid carry. I have many games where I rack up the soulstealer to 100+ before level 12, this build creates a very demoralizing effect on the other team. No guide is perfect and yes there is always a hard counter for any hero, so anytime that happens call a gank mid. And it is very desirable to have some very heavy dps that are squishy on your team so they can enjoy the bubble to help you mid!

The reasons why this build is better than katarina or twisted fate for anti carry is the fact that kayle has much higher survivability than these heroes, if a gank is called mid on me bubble saves me 9/10 times, so it becomes a frustrating game of cat and mouse for the opponent. wasting their time, exp, and gold ganking somebody who is exp denying their carry. And believe me, a high elo ashe is far easier than you think, corki is a challenging opponent but just as beatable as ashe when done correctly, I stick to my guns that you are going to have more trouble laning against a tank/lifesteal champ than any other in this situation, since your goal is to prevent farming, this makes players like blitzcrank and chogath the most difficult opponent mid, I rarely if ever encounter good blitzes mid as they are great support in a sidelane, and chogaths are fairly rare as well.


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Knuckle

Member

01-07-2010

Bump, try it out!


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starmonkey

Member

01-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle View Post
Bump, try it out!
The servers are down, Knuckle, but I was keen on trying Mejai's with Kayle (then I found this guide, coincidentally).

I never solo mid, so your guide is different from how I play I think. I often get exec calling early with Kayle so that I can use Fury at range to debuff lifestealers/regen champs.

My current build starts like this:

meki + hp pots -> chalice
boots -> greaves
vampiric -> exec calling
tiamat
[whatever]

I usually fight by using Reckoning to initiate from range, then activate fury and hit them with the debuff, then I back off cause usually I get focused for being the initiator, then I bubble whoever needs it and try and get some hits in.

I always go with cleanse to make sure I can always cast the bubble when I need to. I've often been stunned and not able to use my ulti.

Note: I'm a fairly hopeless player, so this is probably all wrong

If I go Mejai's later this weekend, I'll probably go AP + tanky build, so that I don't die as much and lose my stacks! Perhaps haunting guise + sorc shoes for MP.

p.s. Thanks for writing your guide. I like Kayle, even though I don't think she's a top-tier champ purely cause she doesn't have that "oomf" that other champs have (ok, I'm still in love with Gangplank's crit'ing parrrley with sheen).


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Master Thnag

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Member

01-08-2010

I like this build a lot. I'm a new player and gravitated toward Kayle. I like how the items go in order based on utility it provides then marginal gold cost per ability point.

What do you think about using Rod of Ages versus the other final items you suggested?


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KrupsMcGee

Senior Member

01-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phiphler View Post
I like Rageblade on Kayle, I find that she is the best champion for it by far. It works well in conjuction with Lich Bane.

Have you managed to test the new Soulstealer this patch? 20+ AP per kill sounds like a lot, perhaps its workable?
I agree, played with nashor's, 2x rageblades, soulstealer and sorc. boots, would have picked up zhonya's eventually if we hadn't won so fast. Righteous fury will do lots of damage, two shotting the first sorc. creep then one shotting the next two, then clean up the front line = Kayle can now farm, plus CR and AP help in team fights, and healing is actually worthwhile then. Seems promising at least.


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starmonkey

Member

01-09-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle View Post
Zhonyas Ring
After further testing, I have decided to bench the lichbane from slot 4 on my recommended items, instead work towards a Zhonyas Ring, if you are able to complete this and get some decent stacks on the soulstealer you will be an AP powerhouse.
Quite an expensive late-game item... have you tried something like Abyssal for the AP + aura? Void staff?

When you get sorc shoes, have you tried haunting guise also for further MP? I'd say that Toggle's "AP Shaco" guide would apply to Kayle also.


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Knuckle

Member

01-10-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by starmonkey View Post
Quite an expensive late-game item... have you tried something like Abyssal for the AP + aura? Void staff?

When you get sorc shoes, have you tried haunting guise also for further MP? I'd say that Toggle's "AP Shaco" guide would apply to Kayle also.
It really depends how the game goes, if you are proper farmed with a low death count zhonyas is the way to go, if you are ending up in a low killcount game it may be desirable to sub in a cheaper item with MP, I haven't tested MP items heavily becuase for whatever reason most teams refuse to stack magic resist or focus on armor instead, I'd probably go void staff over abysal scepter for the better MP on a single target which is how kayle does most of her dmg early mid game.