how do you know if you are harrasing correctly in lane?

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TasLoL

Senior Member

01-05-2011

I've been playing malphite a lot lately and I always read that he is a good harasser. Can someone define what a good harasser is? maybe 1/5 of the time I can get an early kill and force the other enemy champ to miss two or 3 waves of last hits.

But otherwise, my CS is usually the lowest in the team and so are my kills. Usually my shield breaks with 1 hit against spell casters and 2 hits against melee. I think his zoning is pretty weak because any competent opponent will hit me when I go to Q them and then their enemy minions will help break my shield. Once the shield is down, I can't zone and I can't Q since its small range almost guarantees the opponent will hit me with something.

I'm not saying he is bad, I can definitely hold a lane for a long time and ensure my opponents don't last hit everything. And when I get my ult, any mistakes the opponents make will be severely punished. But I don't get how he is a strong harasser. To me a strong harasser is some1 like pantheon. He can pretty much zone you out for fear of his stun.

So am I harassing incorrectly or do I just need to rethink what most people mean by "good harasser."


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Seven of Swords

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

You're not supposed to be invincible when harassing, but you take significantly less damage when harassing. If you consider his zoning to be weak, perhaps your positioning is poor, especially if the minions are attacking you immediately after the cast. If you're preventing the opponent from last hitting, you're doing a good job. In fact, if you're even better you'll be pushing them far back enough to ensure they lose some of that precious exp they should be getting from the minions getting killed.

Idunno. I'm not great, but this is what harassment always meant to me.


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RoflTroll

Senior Member

01-05-2011

My best record with Malph was that the enemy Irelia wasn't level 6 by the time I'm level 9, simply because I'd run between her and her minion waves whenever she tries to leave tower (the reason she's gotten past level 3 was that I made a mistake and died in a gank where if I didn't I'd gotten double kill).

The way he harasses is that your shield makes you 'win' the trade. If your shield break then stay back until it's up, then back to QQQQ. If they don't break your shield then keep up the QQ.

If they're under tower, but doesn't have a good stun(near instant stun like Veigar's E or Panth's jump can be deadly here), then you can even run up, Q, then run back out while taking little damage because your shield should easily almost fully absorb a tower's shot(you'd take maybe 20-30 damage)

You should always be trying to last hit if it doesn't push the lane outward(in 1v2 against something like Urgot/Panth, the ones that can burst you down if you're not careful), and pretty much always last hit if possible in 1v1, 2v1. Unless they have an instant stun, you can even harass some champs right under their tower. Malph with no gold isn't scary.

Having low kills shouldn't matter so much, but if you want to increase your lethality then using Ignite is an option(REQ Ignite usually will kill anyone after 1-3 leading Qs).


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Narnak

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

His Q isn't bad harass, especially with some magic pen and a Doran's ring to start, and if you get rank 3 by level 5. But his Q did get a range nerf recently. However, there is no reason for you to move well beyond your minions to hit that Q. If you are already zoning them out of farm, there is no need to harass. Last hit those minions and Q whenever they get close. If they continue to pressure you (i.e. move into YOUR minion pack), follow up your Q with W->auto->E. Also if it is a passive lane and you aren't using Q much then level your E first. It is better for clearing minions, and better in a team fight. Like any champ though, you need to practice being good at getting last hits with just his auto-attack. Practice the timing in custom game vs bots or something. Or against no bots (uneven match) try to see how long it takes you to farm 100cs in lane. For a solo lane a good farmer can get 100cs in 15 minutes. Technically I think it is like 11-12 minutes if you are not missing any last hits. A little less if you are mid and can jack wraiths every time they are up.


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Cenerae

Senior Member

01-05-2011

If you're harrassing correctly, you will be applying pressure to your opponent more than they can apply pressure in response. Eventually you'll be strong enough that your simple presence will scare them away from the minions.

Dominating the lane means that you restrict the enemy's ability to farm properly, and usually involves you having a much higher cs than they do. This may mean you need to practise last hitting somewhat, if your cs is usually very low.

With Malphite, you shouldn't go out to q when your minions are all gone. Just throwing the q at your opponent and backing off means you take no minion aggro and thanks to your passive, you should get away with very little damage in response. In this way, you weaken them to the point I mentioned before, when you become too strong in comparison. Then walking out to lasthit will make them back away in fear of taking more damage.

I consider a good harrasser to be a champ than can, through one way or another, establish lane control. Lux has extremely long range nukes to chip enemies down, and when her passive is on them she creates the additional threat of more damage if she hits them just once. Akali can make a 'no fly' zone by running toward her opponent and dropping her shroud. If they come near it they take a q-hit-q combo and take a ton of damage, so she secures free farm for a while. And so on...


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TasLoL

Senior Member

01-05-2011

well one issue that was mentioned in the replies is when I have no minions. The enemy champs often don't last hit, they just hit the minions constantly. What do you do in that case? If I go to melee for last hits, they will hit me and if I hit them, I will have less minions on my side.

Another thing, how are you guys last hitting with auto attack without getting hit twice by the enemies and your shield going down? If you are in melee range, the enemies are definitely going to burn your shield. For example against cassiopia, there's no way you can melee last hits without getting hit with her aoe followed by a combo.


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viscrom

Senior Member

01-05-2011

Just because you're melee doesn't mean you need to always stand in melee range of the minions. Stay just outside of their auto attack/danger zone and then dive in quickly for a last hit. You need to time your dive in so that as soon as you get in melee range the minion is ready to be last hit so you can go back or to the brush quickly.

You have to remember that as a ranged hero you have 2 choices when a melee goes in for a last hit. You can either last hit yourself or harass them. A good ranged hero will probably take last hits over harassing you unless you're a hard carry and need to be shut down but he'll also harass you every single time he's not in a spot to get a last hit but you're within harass range. You need to be watching your creep line as much as theirs and try to last hit when they last hit.


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Narnak

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Senior Member

01-05-2011

Malphite shouldn't really be soloing. He's mainly a duo laner or jungler. So you should have someone with you that is ranged for one (since there is really not much reason to put 2 melee in the same lane), or not be in lane at all. How aggressive you are really depends on the matchup and the strategy/skill of your opponents.

If you are having trouble avoiding damage to last hit, for one keep moving all the time don't just stand next to the minion pack. Move in for the kill and back out. Make different pathings to avoid skill shots and increase your zone of control. Move in from one side to force them to get near your minions to hit you (and thus take damage from them, since allied minions will aggro champs that attack you). Just be all over the place...unpredictable. And try and make sure the granite shield is up whenever you go in range to mitigate any harass you take. If you have a lane partner ask them to try and help you control the minion zone if you're struggling. Also make use of the brush...you can jump out to attack or harass and move back in before they target you with their counter-harass. Don't attack from inside the brush though because that will make you visible. Then you have to move out and back in to restore your invisibility.

Knowing the matchups and every champions zone of control is the most important thing in reducing the harass you take. That will come with practice and seeing a lot of different matchups.