Which Thornmail do you like more?

Option 1 listed below. 5 41.67%
Option 2 listed below. 4 33.33%
Perfect as it is. 3 25.00%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

[Change Item] Thornmail - Use "Block" instead of "Armor"

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KingsRight

Senior Member

12-09-2009

I'd like to see what would happen if riot tested thornmail without the Unique feature.. as it is.. just to see if it really does get abused. I bet it would be used much more but not to abusive levels. they should test that.

turn it off next version and let us try... lets see how many matches people win based on it. i bet it won't change much. i know this cuz dota's 20% damage return blademail use to be stackable.. and people that stacked them rarely won.


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PseudoRandom

Junior Member

12-09-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsRight View Post
I'd like to see what would happen if riot tested thornmail without the Unique feature.. as it is.. just to see if it really does get abused. I bet it would be used much more but not to abusive levels. they should test that.

turn it off next version and let us try... lets see how many matches people win based on it. i bet it won't change much. i know this cuz dota's 20% damage return blademail use to be stackable.. and people that stacked them rarely won.
Yea, but think of someone like Rammus just stacking those. Now not only do you take 80%+his shell damage just for attacking, but you have to attack. This would rip apart any attack damage heros.


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Goldenpineapple

Senior Member

12-11-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsRight View Post
why would you want to combine wardens mail with thornmail?.
Who says you have to keep both unique effects? Or you just change their mechanics; slow their attack speed but return extra damage, so it balances. Not hard to figure out.

They don't need to necessarily combine with each other, they just need combines. Both items are too weak right now, top-tier items are always the better choice.

Thornmail is just bad. It doesn't work the way it should. It needs to deal pure damage or SOMETHING to make the effect worth buying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoRandom View Post
Yea, but think of someone like Rammus just stacking those. Now not only do you take 80%+his shell damage just for attacking, but you have to attack. This would rip apart any attack damage heros.
Too bad rammus has piss-poor health for a tank, and could feasibly die just as quickly as his attacker, depending on the attacker's items.


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Soclairian

Senior Member

12-11-2009

Thornmail should reverse lifesteal put upon you. Thus healing you and hurting them.


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JayceJa

Member

12-11-2009

One issue with thornmail i don't think was mentioned is the strength of sunfire capes

they give armor and health, rather than just armor
they do damage to nearby units, but they don't need to be attacking you
they are much better for farming
if someone has around 150 damage attacking 1.5 times a second sunfire cape still does 5 more magic damage per second to them
sunfire capes also stack

sure, sunfires are much more expensive, but because of how much they outclass thornmail, people will almost always grab one instead of a thornmail, thornmail suffering from the same old story of cheaper and weaker items not really being worth it


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-12-2009

Thornmail isn't supposed to "kill" people who are wailing on you. It's supposed to be a counter to people wailing on you that you could kill if it wasn't for their lifesteal.

A maxed out Bloodthirster has the highest lifesteal possible at least on a single item with 25%. It's 15% naturally but goes up a percent every kill, although all of that is lost upon dying.

The highest any other lifesteal item does is 20%. Exactly what Thornmail returns to the attacker, go figure. Barring Warwick and Nasus' passives adding to the effect, I can't think of a single character that's going to get more than one lifesteal item.

It's only 1600 gold, too. It's a "throw-in" item, as I like to call them. It's the type of thing you can get without totally destroying your gold gain in a game where buying it would be prudent.


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Fluffy1

Senior Member

12-13-2009

i would love to see an item that halves lifesteal people gain from you, lifesteal + attack speed is just being way too abused, ruining the game really. at least give diminishing returns on attack speed.


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Ferocity

Junior Member

12-13-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluffy1 View Post
i would love to see an item that halves lifesteal people gain from you, lifesteal + attack speed is just being way too abused, ruining the game really. at least give diminishing returns on attack speed.
I'm very sure executioner's calling does nullify it by 65% for 12 seconds (technically its incoming healing).

Might be interesting to combine executioner's calling, thorn mail, and warmogs.


My version of Thorn Mail would be a little different, but yield the same effect.

Thorn Mail - 2400 Gold
Chain Vest + Cloak Of Agility
60 Armor
UNIQUE EFFECT - Returns 20% damage back to attacker (applied before armor), spell or melee. This damage is not lowered by armor or magic resistance.

This would make it useful but not OP, so that champion selection still matters. Could do some mean damage if someone casts an AoE nuke and the entire other team has one, =Injured Badly. Might add some more strategy for Pre-made though.


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KingsRight

Senior Member

12-13-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by PseudoRandom View Post
Yea, but think of someone like Rammus just stacking those. Now not only do you take 80%+his shell damage just for attacking, but you have to attack. This would rip apart any attack damage heros.
he is like AXE from dota.. you think axe dominated with stacked blademails?.. not really. you know why? cuz it doesn't offer anything else!!

rammus would have to sacrifice slows, burning passive from the sunfire cape and all other kinds of stuff. so YES, even on rammus, stackable 20% damage return still can't be abused. so i say: REMOVE THE UNIQUE feature on it and lets see if it really does get abused. I bet it wont.

In fact, im so sure of it, that i bet people will still complain and say that it's too weak and ask for it to be improved more.


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sycsadist

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Senior Member

12-13-2009

is i recall, blademail in dota eventually became upgradeable, but still that s*cked.. anyway, thornmail in LoL seems better, because champs have high damage.. and yah, to think of rammus plus only one thornmail is imba, what more with many, axe != rammus.. none comparable, closes to rammus would be anubs spiked carapace, but thats it. thornmail is as good as it is.


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