[GUIDE] Nasus, Furious Sands Are Furious

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Kalshazzak

Senior Member

11-11-2010

Brames, Not once did I say that a tank should never get an aegis. I'll clairify for you incase you don't want to reread it. I said a tank shouldn't be getting ageis while they have a support or off-tank(nasus is both btw) that is capable of getting it faster/easier. Using the gaming championships as a counter example is poor imo because most people who read guides aren't going to be 5 man premade who plan team strategies and builds with each other. Now I also mention that ageis is good on a tank if the opposing teams damage is balanced throughout the match. I don't know about you but most of the time teams are usually heavy one way or the other, either from champ select, or through consistent ganking of the nukers OR carries on the other team.(although the latter requires more coordination than solo que usually offers)

The part about manamune and mr/5 runes being reduntant together are true, however this should only be a problem for the ones oblivious enough to do it. Now i can see why dodge runes work in your build(because you build no initail durability), but against better opponents you are going to be pounced on ealy and often while last hitting, and the RGN of dodge will fail you more than help until you get a majority of your build done.(I'm not saying this build can't work earlier game, but it's pretty dependent on a stong lane partner, and/or very passive enemies. This is from my expierence with trying to rush sheen early, and as I began playing against better people, or solo laning, mana crystal became exponetially weaker.)

Now if you were to introduce the fact that your guide is meant to play nasus well for lower level summoners without runes, then I'd say manamune is a nices choice. However once someone can get enough mr/5 from runes, manamune just isn't as good for how it hurts your early game.

@hotsauce
Dodge runes give you a small chance to reduce damage, while mr/5 allows you to farm/push/harrass/zone much more often while allowing you to always have your ult available as an o **** button. Another thing is wither is much more reliable as a way to reduce damage than dodge, and mr/5 allows you to farm heavily while always having the mana for it. Flat CDR imo are the most valuable glyphs, and since nasus already has great base MR that 5.85%(14.85% with masteries) is huge while farming up SS while leaving it a level 1 for most of the game.

Back to Brames, yes aegis isnt a required item, but for his role as an off-tank/support/pusher it should be. While adding the base amount of durability to nasus/squishies around him needs, it also improves his pushing power which is nasus's primary role imo.(losing 2-3 less minions on the first turret can sometimes mean the next turret drops, especially when solo pushing/BD)


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BramesJown

Junior Member

11-11-2010

Added some numbers and screenshots from a game I just played.

@Kalshazzak
You're correct, you did not say that a tank should never buy Aegis. The comment that I was responding to was that a tank should be in fact setting itself up for "better" items and I wanted to make the case with my example that Aegis is a very good and quality item for a tank to buy.

I understand everyone's point that Nasus can farm up Aegis the fastest and therefore should be getting it as support/off-tank, but I disagree that Nasus being able to build Aegis the "fastest" means that he must get it. I stand by my assertion that Aegis is mildly overrated and wanes in usefulness after the early to mid game. I'll fully admit that Manamune Nasus has a weaker early game than Aegis Nasus, but I don't think he's significantly less powerful as a pusher without it. My point is the Manamune build has a mid and end game powerful enough to make the slightly weaker start negligible. Nasus can still farm like a boss with regular ole Spirit Fire and an earlier Sheen, but you do have to play with the knowledge that you're not as resilient as Aegis Nasus.

I'll fully admit I am by no means a top ELO player, but this is definitely not an only "low level play" build.

~~~

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say most of this opposition is coming without ever trying Manamune out. I'll try to get in some more games and see if I can make my case here.


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NessOnett

Senior Member

11-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BramesJown View Post
[Q] Siphoning Strike:
Low-cooldown and a on-hit damage increase, Siphoning Strike is spammable goodness. It's stellar with Sheen and it grows gradually in power the entire game. Here's the thing: don't focus on building SS, because your extra 100 damage from last hitting fifty minions really isn't going to be the deal breaker end-game. Its spammable bonus attack, it triggers Sheen, builds your mana pool with Manamune and helps you last hit like a boss. An Egyptian dog-boss.
I don't where to begin to tear this guide apart, so let's start where I stopped reading the second time...here. "extra 100 damage" proves how bad you are at Nasus if that's your high end when trying. If you play for building SS early, you will easily have 200 last hits with SS by "endgame"(past 30 minutes), which translates to 400 bonus damage, which in turn becomes 1000 bonus damage if you have a triforce.

You mentioned also that Manamune is "more effective when ulting"...NO! it's is actually marginally LESS effective when ulting. As are all forms of AD, which is why AD Nasus is a bad idea. Let's say for example you have 100 base AD(which Nasus has at some point, not sure what level). If you ult around tanky people, you will drain their HP and convert it to AD, and be somewhere around 400 AD. Now let's say you itemized for AD, and have a base of 300, which is three times what you would otherwise have. You ult in the same situation, and your total AD is now 600. Thereby making your AD bonus ONE SIXTH as effective while you're ulting.

I could go on, but I'm bored already as I think I've made my point that this guide is full of errors. But if you REALLY want me to I can keep picking it apart.

@ other people: it is possible to have MP/5 runes in the glyph section and not have to sacrifice your dodge...shocking I know!


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BramesJown

Junior Member

11-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by NessOnett View Post
I don't where to begin to tear this guide apart, so let's start where I stopped reading the second time...here. "extra 100 damage" proves how bad you are at Nasus if that's your high end when trying. If you play for building SS early, you will easily have 200 last hits with SS by "endgame"(past 30 minutes), which translates to 400 bonus damage, which in turn becomes 1000 bonus damage if you have a triforce.

You mentioned also that Manamune is "more effective when ulting"...NO! it's is actually marginally LESS effective when ulting. As are all forms of AD, which is why AD Nasus is a bad idea. Let's say for example you have 100 base AD(which Nasus has at some point, not sure what level). If you ult around tanky people, you will drain their HP and convert it to AD, and be somewhere around 400 AD. Now let's say you itemized for AD, and have a base of 300, which is three times what you would otherwise have. You ult in the same situation, and your total AD is now 600. Thereby making your AD bonus ONE SIXTH as effective while you're ulting.

I could go on, but I'm bored already as I think I've made my point that this guide is full of errors. But if you REALLY want me to I can keep picking it apart.

@ other people: it is possible to have MP/5 runes in the glyph section and not have to sacrifice your dodge...shocking I know!
I couldn't find where exactly I said that Manamune was more effective while ulting, but even if I had said so I'm not sure you've convinced me that extra AD is garbage simply because it's a smaller percentage of your total damage when ulting.

And, come on, I chose 100 because it's a easy round number not because that's your target. I didn't name an actual target number because I've seen people rage about how critical leveling SS is when in fact what is really important is focusing on last hitting and farming in general for minion kills and sweet, sweet gold. AND because every game is different (different lengths, different amount of time spent in laning phase, different levels of harassment from the enemy) a lower than average SS one game does not mean you played a **** terrible Nasus that round.

Bring on more of my errors. I'll fully admit to fallibility and this'll be my first guide so sure, I'm not exactly sure on all the mechanics but I think I've got the crux of it. Show me the error of my ways, sensei.


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Mr Wednesday

Member

11-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by NessOnett View Post
If you play for building SS early, you will easily have 200 last hits with SS by "endgame"(past 30 minutes), which translates to 400 bonus damage, which in turn becomes 1000 bonus damage if you have a triforce.
If you're really getting 200 SS charges in 30 minutes, that's pretty impressive, but I question if you're using your time wisely. I rarely crack 200 minion kills in a game, and that's including kills from SF and normal last hits when SS is on cooldown. You'd have to spend a lot of time hovering around minion waves to put up numbers like that. In my experience, a 50-charge (100 bonus damage) laning phase is a good one, and after that it's off to teamfights and working the jungle.

On a more constructive note, you wouldn't happen to have a game recording that we could see, would you Brames? I'd be interested to see how your playstyle differs from mine with all that mana and AD.


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BramesJown

Junior Member

11-11-2010

Working on getting that, Mr W, I'm having some trouble with my recorder. But I will get one up.


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Krackor

Senior Member

11-11-2010

I like the idea of Manamuna on Nasus as an offensive option. If you want to increase your AD (as opposed to crit chance, armor penetration) the fact that he commonly builds catalyst and sheen makes it really efficient. I'm not sure I'm convinced building +AD is a good way to improve Nasus's damage though, since he has so much damage already from Sheen procs and SS. I think focusing on armor pen and crit would be a more efficient route (if only Last Whisper gave crit chance instead of attack speed!).

Now that I think of it, does SS and Sheen even benefit from crit chance?

I would suggest dropping Glacial Shroud/FH from the build. The offensive power from the +mana and manamune passive is pretty small (only 10 AD), and imo CDR isn't that strong a stat on Nasus. He can already use Spirit Fire twice per minion wave, and normally team fights don't stay in one spot long enough to make a second SF very worthwhile. FotS is worth having more often, but in my experience fights are rare enough that my ult is off cooldown often without building CDR. Wither would be really nice to have more often, but I think there are better sources of CDR for Nasus.

For defensive items, I really like Warmog's and Randuin's instead of Frozen Heart. Warmog's works well in a game with super long laning phases and/or lots of magic damage on the other team, letting you stay out forever in between bluepills. Randuin's works great against physical damage teams and aoe team fights in general.


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NessOnett

Senior Member

11-11-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BramesJown View Post
I couldn't find where exactly I said that Manamune was more effective while ulting, but even if I had said so I'm not sure you've convinced me that extra AD is garbage simply because it's a smaller percentage of your total damage when ulting.
My point is that you have 2 other main options. Which are AS and survivability.

100% of your AS transfers over when ulting and when not ulting. So itemizing for little to no AS compared to AD is a bad idea.

The reason people build survivability is because Nasus hurts. He hurts a lot. But between his ult and his SS, he hurts with no items. So you can be a glass cannon Nasus(as you're proposing) and do 50% more damage. Or you can build primarily survivability and last 5+ times as long in a fight.


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JoeCool808

Member

11-12-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by BramesJown View Post
Here's a game where by level thirteen I had my core build (Tear, Sheen, Catalyst, Glacial Shroud, Boots). My relevant stats are as follows:
Attack: 99
Health: 2028
Mana: 2526
Armor: 112
Magic Resist: 52
First, I'd like to say that I like how your guide is organized. However, I am skeptical as to someone being able to afford all those halfway items by mid game without being somewhat fed by either easy farming or even kills.

Tear - 995
Sheen - 1260
Catalyst - 1325
Glacial Shroud - 1675
Boots (Merc are usually best) - 1200
Total of 6455 not including pots and ward etc.

My Comments:
An early tear/sheen makes for a very squishy nasus early game. I would think the earlier the catalyst is built, the better in terms of a combo of survivability and regen. However, an early tear is essential for building mana. You also have no armor or MR until glacial shroud and maybe mercs and when you finally finish banshee in late game. TBH 52 MR is nothing really considering how most stuff flying around in teamfights are magic damage and you want to be in the middle of that and survive to maximize the ult.

My Questions/Suggestions:
I also wanted to offer a suggestion about making a section that discusses how to play nasus in the different phases of the game. Do you 1v2 or 2v2? If 2v2, that would severely hinder your farming for those mid game items because you'd have to share last hits with your laning partner somewhat.

I wanted to know how you play nasus in the laning phase as you are very squishy until catalyst glacial shroud and maybe merc treads. I also noticed that you don't finish your boots until after glacial shroud is done making you pretty slow and very relient on ghost for keeping up with the enemy team in teamfights. I wanted to know how you usually play through that.

Even though I'm picking on what I think are flaws, I want to thank you for another approach to nasus.


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Merich

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Senior Member

11-12-2010

Interesting Mana / Defense Nasus. I've tried something similar once upon a time. Good job. You should come take a look at my AD Nasus build. It is a hit or miss build, but I like it.

http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board...d.php?t=333827


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