Things i noticed about ap items

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Semei

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Here are some possible problems with current ap items in game -

As we all know - for melee you always get full benefit - if item has attack damage, then it will have attack speed, lifesteal of similar component besides attack damage, and that improves your damage.

But casters have their items somehow messed up - either they add hp, mana, etc as their secondary component, but not something that improves damage output. This is REAL problem right now.

Say i want a lot of ap - what can i choose - everything has ****loads of mana or hp attached to it- ring, rod of ages, rylais, etc etc. There are no pure ap/damage items out there, besides just buying raw ap items.

No one needs that 3k mana pool in team fights. And for the laning - there is mana regen.

We are in great need of items that add AP plus some utility that improves damage.

AP + Cooldown reduction
AP + random utility that improves damage (for example clickable item that reduces cooldowns of first 3 spells)
AP + Raw health, without paying for the slow effect as in rylais
AP + precentage of ap growth, as in Zhonya's Ring but without paying 975g(!) for mana you dont need.
AP + spell penetration (always irritate me that i have to buy that mana crystal for that 40% penetration)
AP + spell life steal - dont scream, everything can be balanced, its just another option to choose from

Getting one tear of goddess is all that standard caster needs for teamfights. Why would you add mana to almost everything?

Abyssal Scepter - such a good item, but why add magic resist to it? I chalice/veil/mercury threads for my survival, why do you have to pollute my Ability power section with stats that have nothing to do with spell damage? If i want mana, i buy item for mana, if i want magic resist i buy magic resist item - if i want hp i buy hp item. etc.

Melee can buy everything they want without polluting their damage with some random stats or waste money on huge mana pool you dont need.

Only good damage item for casters was mejais, but that item also is snowball, that dont appeal every play style and now as you loose the stats its somehow useless.

Please give casters more options to choose how to build!

Quote:
Riot hear me! Please!

Put on some tests and theory craft about how you can build a mage and how you cant.

How much money you spend on secondary stats that you are forced to give in, even if you dont need them. And compare the same thing for casters.

Also see what usual physical dps items are used, think why, and see if you can find similar possibilities on ap builds.

Also think about flexibility of caster items vs physical dps items - for example some magic resist is ok - buy would you want to spend that 400g on that magic resist when you take that beating from physical damage not ability?

Do you have possibility of skipping that magic resist?

How can you wisely manage size of you mana pool and mana regen, how you can make sure you don't spend to much on mana and mana regen while your damage could use some help of that very needed money?

Also take note how you always try to make game shorter, see how you can manage your money smartly playing as mage in first 20 minutes, will you need to spend some extra gold on things you dont need, while physical dps just gets straight to what it wants?


I think that casters have so much less flexibility with their items its just very very SAD. You have no way to manage you mana pool, you will always have to get it. You wont be able to choose armor over magic resist. You cant manage money you spend on mana regen.

PLEASE TEST. Test on paper, test on real games, compare!

EDIT:

SUGGESTED CHANGES:


Zhonya's Ring - Remove mana component and add another blasting wand - will be like casters infinity edge, not 1000g of worthless endgame mana investment that it is now. Or make new item.

Lich Bane - Replace magic resist mantle with Amplifying Tome - or replace it with hp - or remove. Possibly the best option would be to remove magic resist and replace that
Amplifying Tome component with Blasting wand - would make a great item.

Abyssal Scepter - replace magic resist with blasting wand or just make new armor pen aura item without that magic resist.

Fiendish codex OR Stinger - replace mana regen component of one of thoose items with Amplifying Tome. So its AP+Attackspeed and AP+mana regen not Mana regen + attackspeed and Mana regen + AP. AP is more important stat considering the wast ammounts of mana regen items -
Chalice of Harmony, Soul Shroud, Philosopher's Stone, Tear of the Goddess, Tiamat, Doran's Ring etc etc.

Mana regen in team fights is useless. What was winning the games again? Do i hear someone scream "teamfights" ? In laning - yeah, get your mana regen philo, chalice, manipulator, dorans, tear, Fiendish Codex, whatsoever - in teamfights- give my money back, thats my money, why do i have mana regen EVERYWHERE.

Also magic resist? Camoon... There is NO reason why magic resist should be in Abyssal - WHY? And even in Lich Bane ?For the lols you get more in chalice, then even in that new Quicksilver Sash i will never use because i have magic resist put against my will - EVERYWHERE.

Void staff - replace one Amplifying Tome with Blasting wand and remove mana - that would make item that is the same components as old mejais, but with % magic pen not mana again

The more possibilities you add the better.

Sadly casters have two damage stats -
ap,
magic pen

but

physical have -
lifesteal,
critical stike chance,
critical damage bonus,
armor pen,
pure damage bonus,
splash damage


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Captain Scro

Senior Member

12-07-2009

I agree a +AP with a +magic dmg % would be niceeeee


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JunkRamen

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Deathfire Grasp
Haunting Guise, kinda
Fiendish Codex
Void Staff

I find that it's easier to gear casters than melee. Melee tend to have a big gap between low-mid items and final items, whereas casters have pretty strong itemization until the final part of the game.


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Semei

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkRamen View Post
Deathfire Grasp
Haunting Guise, kinda
Fiendish Codex
Void Staff

I find that it's easier to gear casters than melee. Melee tend to have a big gap between low-mid items and final items, whereas casters have pretty strong itemization until the final part of the game.
Void staff adds mana (400g wasted)
Fiendish Codex adds only 30ap - and adds mana regen - possibly a 390g wasted.
Deathfire gasp adds mana regen - again.

I wonder what physical dps would say if we would add magic resist, health, mana regen, hp regen, etc to infinity edge, last whisper, black cleaver, bloodthirster...


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Evernight

Senior Member

12-07-2009

You know Semei all the posts and threads from you that I read are more or less you either *****ing about the game or nonconstructive BS toward other posters. If others reading this don't believe me feel free to search his posts.

Please try to remain encouraging and helpful. Make your suggestions about game balance a bit more constructive and open to constructive criticism.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

12-07-2009

I'm confused as to how anyone was able to reach the conclusion that mana is a waste.


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Voidgolem

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Step 1: Buy Archangel's Staff

Step 2: Buy other stuff

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Win Game

Caster damage output is ridiculous as-is when compared to everyone who isn't a fully-geared carry. Yeesh.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

12-07-2009

That and with the mana efficiency, or more importantly the lack thereof, you need a large mana pool to draw on for effective play.

Though I find Archangel's Staff to be really lackluster for it's cost and effects.


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Brontobeuf

Senior Member

12-07-2009

+1 Semei.

I have the same issue when I theorycraft my Karthus/Findle. I want my aura and my ulti do KILL not to prevent me to be killed or to stay longer at the fountain.
We can talk a lot about my survivability, my endurance etc, but I would like to be able to build my char like Yi or Ashe, stacking pure AP/MP items and roxx. I want the choice.

We don't have crit as casters... please, allow us to burst a bit more.


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-07-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkRamen View Post
Deathfire Grasp
Haunting Guise, kinda
Fiendish Codex
Void Staff

I find that it's easier to gear casters than melee. Melee tend to have a big gap between low-mid items and final items, whereas casters have pretty strong itemization until the final part of the game.
Fiendish Codex turns into Deathfire's Grasp, so stating they are two different items is kinda not entirely true.

And I like how 390 gold is "wasted" on mana regen. Pure idiocy.


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