Let's Talk Supports

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BMRGould

Recruiter

04-08-2013

Who is your Main support?
Sona and Soraka

Who the the best support overall right now?
Really depends on team compositions, but I feel like Soraka is that safe support if you're first pick, as she's hard to really counter in anyway. It can tend to be a boring lane depending on the rest of the bottom lane champions, but it works very well. Then Soraka also gives the global presence with her ult, meaning you can completely change exchanges for your other lanes while still being in your own. Soraka is not very mana hungry, and she can give large amounts of health and mana to her carry, making for an advantage for sustaining for long lane periods. Which translates into getting ahead in gold and exp that can give you an edge on making the boring farm lane into kills, dragon, and other objectives.

Though, if the enemy support is already chosen, and I know Sona can lane against them, Sona is an extremely strong choice. She can make a lot of things happen when playing aggressive, leveling up her Q every chance you get, as well as her fantastic stun. She can work very well with champions that have poke or burst, which can translate into kills, zoning, and free farm for your lane.

Who is the most fun support overall right now?
I find Sona to be the most enjoyable. Trying to get that Q and passive AA on enemy supports and carries is extremely fun. Sona is great at making plays that turn into kills, she's just one of those supports you can carry bottom lane very hard with.

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?
I have three main setups, and which one I choose depends on all four of the bottom lane champions.

My usual default one is 5 0 25. Exhaust and CDR from Offensive, then the basic support utility choices. I choose this if my lane isn't hard countered, and we aren't hard countering them. Also, I use this with my ranged supports only, as they don't tend to need the extra defence masteries when playing well.

If my lane is hard countered, or the enemy has a very aggressive lane, such as Leona, Alistar, or other all in support, I feel like the safe bet is to go 4 9 17, or 5 9 16. (Difference being exhaust or flash bonus) I find grabbing the extra health, armour, and MR can go along way if you make mistakes.

If I feel my lane is very much in my favour or has a lot of potential, such as Sona mixed with an aggressive burst or poke carry, that it can be a good idea to go with 10 0 20. Grabbing the CDR, AP, and Magic Pen from the offensive tree, as this allows for a lot more damage output with sona.

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?
I used to run Clarity over flash on Sona, and if the enemy team doesn't have good CC or gap closing abilities I think it can still be viable. It allows for a lot of extra poke damage, which can go a long way. Though I haven't opted for clarity in a long time. (Hec, Vi, Jarvan, jungle meta makes it a really bad choice not to grab flash)
I've also seen supports running clairvoyance instead of exhaust, and I can see it giving a lot of usage for making plays and playing safe.

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?
Keeping wards in key travel areas, as well as dragon/baron. Once I have a ruby sightstone, I start warding the key areas to make sure we control as much of the map as possible. River jungle entrances, enemy blue and red buffs, ect. Really depends on what towers are still up and which ones are destroyed.


Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?

Pinks are fantastic for lane phase, they can give you control of tri, river, and lane bushes. I tend to use a pink in a lane bush if the enemy wards one and I feel I need control of it. Pinking river or tri can also allow for your team to get ganks in, or at least make the enemy more passive, giving a nice advantage for your lane.

I tend to only go Oracles mid/late game for certain things, such as the enemy team using a lot of wards, or to clear baron so we can grab it easily. I don't end up buying it that often, as I feel putting it into an item goes a lot farther in most cases.


Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?
Philosopher Stone and Ruby Sightstone are the two items I always rush to get.

Then I usually built Aegis of the Legion, and if not then it's usually because I opted for grabbing Frozen Heart instead. If I build Frozen Heart it's usually because the ADC is a threat and AS reliant (Twitch), as well as someone in another lane such as AD/AS Kayle/Teemo.

I also build Kindlegem either before or after Aegis, and always before Frozen Heart, as the extra CDR goes a long way. I then usually build Shurelya's after I finish Aegis or Frozen Heart, as it brings a lot of utility for escapes and chases, but Philospherstone is worth keeping until after the big item.

Fast Item List:
Zeke's - Multiple AD champions on your team, 20%CDR
Frozen Heart - Multiple AS champions on enemy team, 20% CDR
Bulwark - At least two enemy AP champions
Morellonomicon - Enemy has good healing, 20% CDR, AP/Mana
Iron Solari - I dislike but it's still a choice, Active + 10% CDR
Mikael's Crucible - Enemy team has a lot of Crowd Control


Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)
Sona, Ez
Sona, MF
Sona, Draven
Sona, Graves
Soraka, Caitlyn
Alistar, Vayne
Janna, Caitlyn

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?
It all depends on who else is in the lane.

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?
Ask mid or jungler for a gank to relieve pressure and get you ahead. Farm under tower, level sustain abilities rather than damage. Bush control with pinks.

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?
Not much really.
More item choices possibly, and buffing Nami so she scales better into late game.


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Chopinator

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImxThor View Post
Who is your Main support?
All of them. Just depends on my team and opponents team. If I have to first pick I will take Taric, if I have a choice I will take best match up possible.

Who the the best support overall right now?
Id have to say Taric. Heal, Stun, Armor Shred all wrapped in a tanky SOB.
Again this really depends on match up too. A support who is the "best" in one match will get destroyed in another match up.

Who is the most fun support overall right now?
Zyra. No questions. There is no other support that can peal AND initiate like her.
Nid is a blast too. Nothing like taking half of ADC or Support's health with 1 spear, then healing your ADC and giving them AS steroid to finish them off.

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?
Usually it is 0-9-21. Or if I am running AP support I will go 9-0-21, you have to be careful going that route.
Runes are usually Armor Reds, Armor Yellows, Scaling and Flat MR Blues and GP1 Quints.
If I am going AP support I will change Armor Reds to Magic Pen.


Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?
Always 100% every game I will have exhaust.
The other depends on support. If I am running Nid or another support with a get away I will take ignite\clarity or heal.

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?
Map awareness. If you know your going to baron or dragon I will ward around that area with SS. If I know we will be engaging in a spot on map I will ward that area. So basically make sure you ward where you think you will be engaging. Be sure to communicate to your team that you should engage where you have sight.


Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?

I use pinks in laning. After that I get oracles and clear wards as we go.

Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?
Aegis is a great item, Locket is great item for the cost. WOTA is great if you have 2 or more AP or if some of your team scale with AP and builds from Pick.
Aegis every game unless they are running all AD.
Ruby Sightstone everygame
Boots of some kind.
The rest depends on support, team comp and opponents.

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)
This I honestly dont know. I think it is completely dependent on the people playing the champs.

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?
Not at all. A strong AP support can outcarry a Tank Support if the team works well together.

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?

Freeze lane if you cant just outside your turret. Farm as well as you can. Ward bush closest to your tower. Try to take most of the harass on yourself and do most of the harass so your ADC can CS. Try to pink river (by going around obviously) so your jungler can come down and he help your ADC get the double

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?
I would like to see a few more items that have auras \ actives that supports could pick up.

(will post my answers in the thread)
Answers above.


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AaronPoke

Junior Member

04-08-2013

Who is your Main support?
Janna, Alistar, Morgana

Who the the best support overall right now?
IMO Janna is the best simply for her ability to peel your adc. But overall i will go with the community and say taric is the best :3

Who is the most fun support overall right now?
Without a doubt, alistar

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?
0-9-21 for move speed, increased exp gain (helps when you roam or fall behind), and extra gold and utilities :P

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?
Ward when their entire team ISN'T MIA. Otherwise you could get ambushed from any bush

Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?
Pinks. Much more cost efficient since you only need extra vision in certain areas.

Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?

It is extremely hard for a support to follow a regular build simply because the income is not reliable. Generally core support items are shurelias and sightstone, then you can build whatever you want to.

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)

Taric/Draven: Tankiness and damage. gg.

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?
All depends on play. Tanky supports generally are worse off than utility supports when they fall behind though. Ex: leona initiates and gets bursted before she can ult

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?
Freeze lane at tower

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?
I enjoy the current meta and find it to be the most effective. Im open to trying new things though. i've supported kayle and kennen adcs and they did fine


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Lulu Our Goddess

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Who is your Main support?

Lulu, I've been able to actually carry my team because of my supporting

Who the the best support overall right now?

Every single support is good a what they do, but I would say Taric just really takes the cake... early... in terms of utility, every one else is amazing, Leona amazing initiation, sona, janna and lulu with those ways to engage and disengage pretty good.

Who is the most fun support overall right now?

In all honesty, Lulu or Janna are so fun to play with, their kit really can mess up the enemy and that's great.

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?

I like having 0/15/15 or 0/13/17 especially on Lulu, I like to be tanky enough to help my team in the whole game, I think the 21 on utility is great but being a little harder to kill has helped me so much.

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?

Clairvoyance is underrated, but honestly I dont see any other summoner spells that can be useful late game, ignite, exhaust, flash and ghost are probably the best, teleport isn't that great after quite a while.

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?

I usually go ward when enemies have died or when I know for a fact they're not close, I usually ward over walls because it's safier, but late game I usually go, ward and "shurelya's my wait out of there"


Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?


Sight wards are good

Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?

Shurelya's active is amazing, it really helps for every situation, if not, lockect solari is also amazing, shard of true ice is also good, honestly it makes singed happy.

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)

Ezreal seems to work with any, but the ez and taric combination is really strong, I would say the old alistar + vayne combination also works but it isn't that great anymore.

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?

I feel like it isn't that fair that some supports for example thresh or alistar, will be really tanky or almost full tank late game, utility supports will get tanky but that's pretty much it on solo queue, tank supports aren't that great, just probably thresh.

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?


I feel bullied when my adc starts to say horrible stuff at me!, at least to me, that's worse than anything.

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?

Once again, they should pick champions that have an amazing synergy, caitlyn and janna can poke a lot and really dominate the whole lane, ezreal and taric is really strong together, graves and leona quite tanky, it's all about communication.


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Natsuki Myoshi

Junior Member

04-08-2013

dsa


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Foolamancer

Member

04-08-2013

Who is your Main support?
Lulu and Sona, with a side of Leona when I'm in a situation where I can actually communicate with my carry. Playing initiator supports when you can't communicate with your carry is a recipe for disaster.

Who the the best support overall right now?
Probably Lulu. She has unbelievable amounts of utility and teamfight presence throughout the entire game, and is very near Sona levels of versatility regarding the types of teams and lane partners she can work with.

Who is the most fun support overall right now?
Again, Lulu - but Lulu is just the most fun champion in the game right now, so yeah.

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?
I actually rarely use either of these setups. 0/13/17 suffices for most support champions that I play, striking an optimum balance between the two trees. I do end up going 0/9/21 for champions like Janna, though, who are entirely focused around defense, and 0/21/9 on supports like Alistar or Leona who need the tankiness for early engages.

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?
Heal is about the only other summoner spell I consider taking on supports, and even then, only on Sona. Sona's weak against hard engages, and Heal helps to mitigate that somewhat, boosting her defensive power.

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?

Dragon and Baron should always be warded. No exceptions, except during the very first few minutes of the game, before you have your Sightstone - and even then, you should have at least one ward on the river, and you need to be very careful if the enemy jungler is one who favors early ganks. During the later game, Dragon and Baron should have pink wards on them at all times, and greens should be placed by both wraith camps. This gives you a tremendous amount of vision of the enemy jungle, making it very difficult for them to move about the map without you knowing.

Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?

Pinks for Baron and Dragon, Oracle's for mid-to-late ward sweeps. The pinks on the two objective spawns are vital for denying your enemy vision of the area; if you can see that part of the river and they can't, you have a massive advantage.

Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?

For supports, the strongest items by far are Locket of the Iron Solari, Shurelya's Reverie, and Ruby Sightstone. Every team should have a member with a Locket, and it's usually the support that ends up building it (if the jungler doesn't; if they do, the support will usually build Aegis of the Legion instead, and vice-versa). The standard build I work with for pretty much every support champion is:

Ruby Sightstone - Shurelya's Reverie - Locket of the Iron Solari - (Insert boots here, varying on champion)

The two final slots are variable on the situation, but Mikael's Crucible is a very common selection. And, as above, Locket of the Iron Solari will be swapped for Aegis of the Legion if someone else is already building a Locket (though there are games where I end up building both).

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)

Lulu and Caitlyn are one of the strongest lane pairings available right now. To get away from the Lulu praise, though, Janna and Kog'Maw work very well together. Alistar and Vayne are an extremely lethal combination. And Leona/Draven is probably the best lane for early kills.

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?
In soloqueue, the tanky initiator supports are pretty much useless, as they rely heavily on communication with the carry to work, and we all know how that works in soloqueue. They can work if you know what you're doing, but they'll always be more difficult to use than the others. In more competitive environments with actual communication going on, it all comes down to matchups and player skill, with very few supports being explicitly better than any others.

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?

Go passive. If you can't fight them, don't; just sit back, let them push, and farm up as best you can. It's about all you can do. If they're winning the lane, just try not to feed them, and call for ganks if your jungler is available.

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?

None, really. I think the current support meta is very flexible already, with almost no stand-out overpowered characters. Taric might be in need of a slight nerf, but that's about it.


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Swiftblood

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Who is your Main support? Leona/Taric/Alistar

Who the the best support overall right now? Leona, if you're good with her stuns. Taric if you're a noob.

Who is the most fun support overall right now? Leona, cc for days

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?
1/9/20 Like having the armor/mres reduction bonus from exhaust, I don't see anything else worth more than that. I do not use biscuit/ward, I think they're useless to a good player.

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when? Flash is the meta for people who are squishy, a tank should always take ghost, much more useful. If I have confidence in my survivability against a team I'll exchange the flash/ghost for heal or teleport.

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught? I begin warding dragon whenever the enemy jungle reaches level 6.

Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards? If my adc isn't very good and the lane phase isn't going in our favor I'll pink in order to get a gank. I start getting oracles around level 15-16 or level 10 if they have champions such as wukong, akali, twitch.


Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items? My 3 core items are ruby sightstone, aegis/runic, and warmogs or randuins. I get boots of swiftness, on nearly everyone I play except for mid's and adc's. Movement speed is op, lets you catch people easier and head people off from far away easier, and is necessary if you don't always pick escape spells. I get randuin's omen whenever the enemy team has a fed champ that uses attack speed well, such as a nocturne, jax, or adc. I get warmogs first the majority of the time then randuins becomes my next item or vice versa. The tankiness is fantastic on a support, especially Leona who can stick around and apply cc for days on people.

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne) Leona with anyone who wants to play aggressive, you can stun so long anyone can win the matchup if they're paying attention.

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que? Support tanks are the way to go right now, if you build them with life anyway.

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane? pink it up, get a gank

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane? better squishy supports


I main top and jungle but my support game comes in close behind them.


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ALEXKOND

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Another suppor main here. I'm in wooden league (don't play ranked yet).

Who is your Main support?
Both Sona and Thresh are my favorite supports by far. If i had to choose only one would be Sona because i main her since her release.

Who the the best support overall right now?
In my opinion Thresh, he can bring a lot of utility and being naturally tanky is great for setting up plays.

Who is the most fun support overall right now?
Remember Kha'Zix and Rengar "on the hunt" quest? Well I have a similar feeling with Thresh collecting souls, a mini game inside the game, i really love that.

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?
For a tanky support i go 0/21/9 generally, sometimes i even go 0/30/0 if i feel confident I will get assist to compesate the 0 point utility page.

For a more squishier support, i go 0/9/21 in almost any match.

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?

If tanky, Flash and exhaust to make sure of the first blood for my adc. Sometimes Flash +flash Heal, but rare.

If not tanky, Flash and CV for map awareness, it's unvaluable how much utily it can bring

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?
Depends on every match, but mostly:
We are winning: I try to keep river and at least part of their jungle warded
We are equal: River + their red and blue at least
We are losing: Our jungle acces points + dragon and baron


Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?

In season 2 oracle all day.
In seasonmy 3 oracle if there is an enemy Teemo or Shaco. If no enemy with free wards ability then pinks.

Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?
The traditional ones,
Tanky: Bulwark, Locket, Randuin, Twin Shadows, Mercury's boots and wards
Utility: Shurelia's, Zeke, Bulwark, Banner of Command, Ionian boots and wards
Of course, assuming i have the gold for that.

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)
Well, both my mains can go with almost every adc. In my opinion, not sure if strongest, but fun and quite challenguing:
Ezreal + Sona: Still a magnificent poke duo
Draven + Soraka: No CD and mana regen for Draven, extreme harrass
MF + Thresh: Get one hooked, kill for the pirate hunter

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?
I can't give you an opinion about solo que, since i dont play ranked.
In my opinion, an utility support can bring more to the team than a tanky one. Assuming you have a tank in your team don't get ganked often

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?
Hug tower, alsoque try to request jungler or mid help for a gank.
Utility support, behind tower and buffing adc, get them into tower range and at first mistake unleash everything i can.
Tanky support, in front of tower, m.ake the target me. Fight under our tower and make the adc get at least one kill.

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?
Not meta related but just a bit more love from the community to sup and junglers mains, it's difficult trying to play weel when people rages at you. We need more friendly players.

Well that's me, nice thread you have OP. I have a lot to learn from other people here


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Here's no answers but I feel like it's sounding the same as a lot of other people.

Who is your Main support?
Leona is my favorite but I like Taric and Lulu a lot too.

Who the the best support overall right now?
I think it's still Taric for now. The only reason not to pick him is if you need somebody more specialized, he's kind of a jack of all trades. I do think we're going for be seeing more Thresh or maybe Janna coming soon but for now I think it' still Taric.

Who is the most fun support overall right now?
I'd have to say Lulu too or maybe Nami against people that don't have the reflexes to dodge her Q.

Masteries:
0/21/9 or 0/9/21? Other? Why did you choose this setup?

I run 1/21/8 for tank supports and 1/13/19 for utility supports
with ranged utility supports I find I don't need to be as tanky so I can dip into the gp mastery and free sightward

Summoners:
we all know flash/exhaust is standard meta, what else do you consider taking, and when?

flash exhaust no exceptions

Warding:
What do you look for to know it's time to go out and ward mid/late game? What tactics do you use to prevent yourself and your team from getting caught?

once you have sight stone a ward is never really "wasted" but if you are warding at a time when you don't have vision of the enemy you might have to settle for droping a ward over a wall instead of going into the river to ward it's better that have a ward in a sub-optimal place than to get caught and die.
Pinks or oracles? What makes you buy either over sight wards?
I find myself rarely buying oracles unless I know for a fact they have a lot of wards around or they have stealth champs that we're going to need vision of in teamfights. I do buy pink wards often however.

Builds:
What items are the strongest right now? What is your standard build, and what circumstances cause you to add different items?

I build sightstone, Bulwark, Twin Shadows and Reverie almost every game. My 5th item is either Zeke's, Locket, Frozen Heart or if it's a silly game, Banner of Command.

Meta:
Who are the strongest lane duos right now? (ex:// leo/ez, taric/draven, ali/vayne)

I'm not going to be too specific here,it depends what you're up against and what your overall plan is. Are you trying to generate kills? Are you trying to deny farm? Are you trying to just survive until after that laning phase? But in general I'd say it's an adc with good burst and a support who can easily force and engage. Like Draven Thresh or Graves Leona for example.

Do you feel there is a disparity between support tanks and traditional utility supports in the current meta? Or at least in solo que?
No, but which is better really depends on the team comp

How do you deal with being bullied by a stronger lane?
Well first you want to identify that they are stronger before you've tried to fight them and they're chunked off like 80% of your hp. :-P
Then you want to try to poke at them if possible and not let them hard engage on you while your adc farms. Try to pink the river and get the jungler to come. This will either result in them getting ganked or them missing farm because they are scared to come past the river when it's not warded. The thing you really want to avoid is trying to force something (or having them force something on you) when you can't win a 2v2.

Lastly, what changes would you like to see in the support field to balance out or diversify the current meta bot lane?
I'd like to see some of the meh support items that have potential improved. Things like Ohmwrecker or Crucible or Shard of ice could be a bit more viable.


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Gaurdian Angel

Senior Member

04-08-2013

Thanks for all the input thus far guys! Has been a successful thread imo