It's fine for tournaments to use 20% of the champion pool

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Sasuke West

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFailBus View Post
Errrr, competitive play uses a hell of a lot more than 20% of the champion pool. A lot more. Yes there's common picks, there always will be, even if everything was perfectly balanced and there weren't FOTM champs the pro's would have preferred champs to play.

But yeah, copying pro's and not using what you're comfortable with in solo queue is a bit silly.

Whens the last time youve consistently seen (consistently meaning more than a few times) in any of these high elo games (tourney)

Akali
Alistar
Brand
Annie
Mundo
Fiddlesticks
Fiora
Fizz
Galio
Gangplank
Heimer (bless his soul)
Irelia
Jax
Leblanc
Lee Sin (in tourney play, i admit he is picked a lot in solo queue high elo)
Leona
Malzahar
Morde
Morgana
Nautilus
Olaf (the nerfs..)
Pantheon
Poppy (bless her soul)
Rammus
Rengar (needs his balls back)
Riven
Sejuani
Shaco
Shyvana
Sion (bless his undead soul)
Sivir
Skarner
Soraka
Swain
Trundle
Tryn
Veigar
Viktor
Warwick
Wukong (I admit he had his time with a cyclone/wild growth strat)
Yorick (kinda fallen off)
Zilean
Oh and Yi (AD yi)


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Brodin

Senior Member

04-07-2013

So the message is stop playing strong champions in ranked because doing so makes us sheep.


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Sasuke West

Senior Member

04-07-2013

I know S3 brought some serious changes (look at what they did to Hecarim J4, Volibear and now even Lux!!!)

Melee carries still aren't even anywhere near viable and the new jungle was supposed to bring back an attempt to carry jungle.

But how many games do you get in, you still give up your buffs? You still got an assassin or wave clear mage taking your wraiths? You still have bot tanking golems now just for the 1 or 2 cs??? Pretty much your job is wolves, wraiths gank if your mid hasn't taken them. I thought this new jungle would maybe bring back junglers like Tryn and Yi. Nope, you can't really farm past 11 minutes and if you don't have a giants belt coming out of your jungle then you aren't doing it right.


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Red Ryu

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodin View Post
So the message is stop playing strong champions in ranked because doing so makes us sheep.
Sort of.

People tend to run and make FOTM of what pros play because they think of other pros do it, they can do it too.

Then they do it right in solo quere and run into problems like, "Why can't I use thresh right?!" or "I can't land these still shots as Lux?!"

They are strong picks, but people will sheep to them when really they may not always be the best pick for you, or even in that situation. Even if Ashe isn't FOTM but you are good with her and she fits into that comp your team has really really well, then you should play her over Miss Fortune, Caitlyn, etc.


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mrdude5410

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chains of Misery View Post
BUT THE SHEEPISM IN RANKED. HOLYHELL.


It's even less then that in every ranked game. The same usual suspects in every got damn game.


Every game there will be a lux, j4, hecarim, mumu, malphite, taric/thresh, zac, akali, cait, MF



Every single got damn game. Its like this game is 100% streamlined now. There is nothing left original about this game.

Try and pick someone no one plays and get auto-reported after any loss. Even if you did the best on the team.


Competitive tournament killed the "competition" of the community. Now its just copy and past as much as possible from top elo players THAT WOULD NEVER USE THOSE STRATEGIES AT GOLD ELO SOLO QUE.
I'd have to disagree. The current tournament meta is significantly different from the soloqueue meta. It's one of the reasons Taric is never picked. Tournaments aren't the problem.


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RavenGage

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthropics View Post
Pretty much. At Silver I I still see a decent variety of picks, but I simply stopped seeing characters like Nami and Ziggs after a certain threshold of MMR. It's clear that it's possible for players to surpass their individual skill level in MMR just by playing borked champions with low difficulties, why do you think so many people play Taric?
Funny you should mention that, Ziggs recently won a game in NA LCS.


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IS13c7fafe7804f7429d10e

Member

04-07-2013

The process of competition automatically reduces diversity. Competition implies selection, which is exactly what happens. Ultimately, there are only 16 "best" champions and only those are to be picked competitively because they are the strongest. If things weren't constantly interrupted by buffs/nerfs changing which champions currently are the top 16, that process would probably already be at its end.

Naturally, other champions also are "viable". But you'd only pick them because you feel attached to them or because they have a terrific synergy with another champion that puts them above one of the 16 top champs.

Add in the fact that doing suboptimal choices is highly frowned upon, it's highly likely that at one point people will want to report you for going, say, Ahri mid just as much as they now want to report you for going duo mid. It's not the best choice, you could have done a better one, hence you're actively harming the team and thus are toxic - That's the reasoning employed currently and in the future.

All of this comes natural with competition. Only the very best can compete. And typically, pros have a better understanding of who's currently best, hence people with a weak mind tend to copy those.


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Igotsummons

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
Funny you should mention that, Ziggs recently won a game in NA LCS.
Which game, I wanna see.


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Felaedor

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IS17804f7429d10e View Post
The process of competition automatically reduces diversity. Competition implies selection, which is exactly what happens. Ultimately, there are only 16 "best" champions and only those are to be picked competitively because they are the strongest. If things weren't constantly interrupted by buffs/nerfs changing which champions currently are the top 16, that process would probably already be at its end.

Naturally, other champions also are "viable". But you'd only pick them because you feel attached to them or because they have a terrific synergy with another champion that puts them above one of the 16 top champs.

Add in the fact that doing suboptimal choices is highly frowned upon, it's highly likely that at one point people will want to report you for going, say, Ahri mid just as much as they now want to report you for going duo mid. It's not the best choice, you could have done a better one, hence you're actively harming the team and thus are toxic - That's the reasoning employed currently and in the future.

All of this comes natural with competition. Only the very best can compete. And typically, pros have a better understanding of who's currently best, hence people with a weak mind tend to copy those.
This is more an issue with the specific balance strategy employed in LoL than it is with competition itself.

LoL has a tendency towards homogeneity, and lacking diverse counterplay options means there will tend to be a "best" way to do any given thing.

DotA has far fewer patch based balance changes, yet still has a constantly shifting competitive champion pool because there are hardcounters for EVERYTHING. LoL has tons of softcounters, yet very few TRUE hardcounters. It tends to make the "this is best, and everything else is sub-par" problem significantly worse.


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Freakishy

Junior Member

04-07-2013

We need more bans with more champs. 6 per side...this gets rid of those 12 OP champs everyone plays and opens it up.