Executioner's Calling v. Mundo

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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

12-21-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Dragon View Post
2L here.

Does Mundo have a possessory interest in the dragon, which would allow Mundo to bring a motion to exclude the gold gained by the other team from their smiting of Mundo's dragon and then ***-****** Mundo immediately afterwards, because they were the fruits of an illegal search?

A possessory interest exists when someone has a legitimate expectation of privacy or ownership (that society is prepared to recognize as reasonable) in the object or place which is the subject of the search. If this possessory interest in implicated without proper justification (such as a search warrant or probable cause) then the evidence gained may be excluded as the "fruit" of the unlawful search.

The facts provide that Mundo had done most of the damage to the dragon, and precent such as 5-man Premade v. Teemo has established that stealing the baron with smite is considered gay by a majority of the gaming community. Here the facts could be argued as strongly analogous to that case, because the dragon is like a miniature version of the baron, in that he gives team-wide experience and gold upon death. While the dragon does not give a team-wide buff, he is also easier to kill than the baron, and thus should be treated similarly to the baron because only the baron and the dragon have these attributes, and it is for those reasons that the baron and the dragon are located in similar places upon the map.
Therefore, if smiting the baron is gay, surely smiting Mundo's dragon is gay. Mundo did most of the damage to the dragon, and would have killed it had the other team not smited it. Therefore, since Mundo did most of the damage to the dragon and only failed to kill it because of the gay smite, Mundo had a possessory interest in the dragon and the gold gained by the other team should be excluded if the search was unlawful or unreasonable.

In the alternative, the other team should be called gay.
I love you in a way that may not be entirely safe for the general community to witness


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Dreampod

Senior Member

12-21-2009

AmPris and Rainbow Dragon:

You guys are awesome! I haven't laughed as hard as while reading this thread in several weeks. You officially win 1 Internets.


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Tasty Buiscuts

Member

12-22-2009

Quicksilver Sash/Cleanse both counter Nunus, Amumus, Morganas, Warwicks, and Twisted Fates ults. Should we remove these items and spells because of this?


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasty Buiscuts View Post
Quicksilver Sash/Cleanse both counter Nunus, Amumus, Morganas, Warwicks, and Twisted Fates ults. Should we remove these items and spells because of this?
Quicksilver sash has a 150 second cooldown. Other than Amumu, all those ults are on shorter cooldowns than 150 seconds, especially because all of them (except Twisted Fate I guess) like cooldown reduction as a main stat.

Also, all of those ults hit huge areas if not every enemy hero on the entire map. Frankly, if I was playing Twisted Fate, and the entire other team had Quicksilver Sashes just to get out of my ultimate, I'd feel that was a win for the team because that's 150 seconds we've got where we can use stuns worry-free of the enemy escaping them.

Executioner's Calling requires you to hit the enemy champion with a auto-attack. That's it. There's no cooldown. Nothing. You just tap the guy and it nerfs the hell out of them.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by I8C SRS FACE View Post
Quicksilver sash has a 150 second cooldown. Other than Amumu, all those ults are on shorter cooldowns than 150 seconds, especially because all of them (except Twisted Fate I guess) like cooldown reduction as a main stat.

Also, all of those ults hit huge areas if not every enemy hero on the entire map. Frankly, if I was playing Twisted Fate, and the entire other team had Quicksilver Sashes just to get out of my ultimate, I'd feel that was a win for the team because that's 150 seconds we've got where we can use stuns worry-free of the enemy escaping them.

Executioner's Calling requires you to hit the enemy champion with a auto-attack. That's it. There's no cooldown. Nothing. You just tap the guy and it nerfs the hell out of them.
Then counter like you do for auto attacks normally.

As it is, healing through damage is a problem between regen, heals, flags, and lifesteal, that is when your team is without these reduction abilities and Executioner's Calling.

Executioner's Calling is an item that allows every composition to counter heal through.

People ***** and moan that there are too many champions' ability only counters, yet when an item is implemented to fill the counter role, it is attacked as completely overpowered because of its countering ability.

Truly baffling.


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-22-2009

Executioner's Calling is a 1350 item that any physical DPS champion wants for the stats it gives alone (cheap crit and lifesteal, at the moment) that is a hard counter to a number of champions. The reason it's imbalanced is the ease to get combined with the fact it's a hard counter to CHAMPIONS, not just some other item.

Have you played Taric, Soraka, or Dr. Mundo since the buff to the item? I can still do decent with Mundo but I have to play completely different than I did before because I can't tank any longer. My main source to stay in fights was completely stripped from me. My ultimate became useless in team fights. (As is, I tend to use it when I'm at like half life or something before a team-fight ever ensues so that I can regen my life back. It's not as handy as being able to do so in the middle of a fight and doesn't come up that often.) Taric's heal is now 100% worthless and so his ability to lane was near stripped away from him. You have to build him attack damage now to be worthwhile, and even then, there's so many champions that do the stun-burst damage thing better (like Sion). Soraka is just terrible now as she's simple an AOE spam for minimal damage.

If someone is playing a champion that counters me, I'm okay with that, because it's how DotA and HoN work. It's how draft mode will work once that finally happens. Chances are, if someone is going to play someone to counter me, one of my teammates will play to counter them, and so that all balances out. The issue is that A SUPER CHEAP ITEM completely shuts down so many characters. That is not balanced. You know it's not balanced. Arguing that it is balanced shows you do not play any of the characters that it shuts down.

Seriously, when's the last time you saw Taric or Soraka actually matter in a game? I don't even see them played anymore.


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EchoRex

Senior Member

12-23-2009

First, Executioner's is a soft counter, not a hard counter. A hard counter is something that stops or eliminates the effects of an action. Soft counters just weaken the effects, Snare compared to Stun.

And yes, I play Mundo and Taric a good bit, plus champions beyond those that I get life steal with, and this item limits the ability I have to just heal past what ever is thrown at me. I understand that, and realize that that is a counter that is keeping me from being unkillable. I have had games where I haven't died once because of Cleanse/Quicksilver Sash and no heal reduction abilities/items on the other team.

The item isn't super cheap, its a mid tier item, please don't misrepresent. As I said, it doesn't completely counter or eliminate any champion ability, item, or summoner spell, it provides a non champion specific counter to heal through.

This item, this effect is absolutely needed, and is absolutely needed at its current strength if not five to ten percent stronger.

Actually have been seeing Soraka a decent bit lately, both Soraka and Taric is always semi rare, now no more rare than before the change, they aren't carries or CC spam champions. Both are still superbly effective because they use more than just their heals in matches I have played with and against them.


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I8C SRS FACE

Senior Member

12-24-2009

If it's mid-tier, it's lower mid-tier. It's the same price as most items that characters want to build first time back at base. It's SUPER STUPIDLY CHEAP and if you disagree, you are wrong. It's a hero kill + your starting gold + maybe another 700 gold? It's the first item you should get, every time, against teams with healers because you WILL make them non-factors. Name me a single physical damage carry unit that DOESN'T want this item. Please. Find me a single one.

I haven't seen anyone play Soraka since the buff to the item that mattered in the slightest, even when played by my good friends who previously were very good with her. She's still fairly good pre-level 6 but once you get to the point that your friendly buddies can basically mash their face into the keyboard and never run out of mana, she's a silence and an AOE damage attack. Big deal. I'd rather have a Kassadin on the team. Taric was never very good early-game in my opinion, so now he has to go attack damage to be useful, meaning his mana pool is abysmal, meaning he can be shut down if someone else on that team or maybe even that same carry decides to pick up a wit's end. I'd rather have a Sion.

Under your definition, there is no such thing as a hard counter. If that's the case, it's certainly the thing closest to a hard counter in the game at the moment.


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SonicTheHedgedawg

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Senior Member

12-25-2009

as twitch, I grab this item ASAP if I say I'm playing against a Taric, an Alistar, a Soraka, a Dr. Mundo, a Tryndamere or a Nidalee.

or any team that seems to be relying on the summoner spell heal more than they should.


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OPOPOPOP

Junior Member

12-25-2009

I absolutely agree that Mundo has it rough when anyone has this item, and with the max health nerf, he's in even worse shape.

Easy fix: Cut the duration of the debuff in half, then make the item clickable to get the effect like Sword of the Divine. Maybe increase the DoT component a bit per level to make that better to balance things out.