The new Karma is rather stale and there are some design points I question

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Asdioh

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornut0 View Post
Sadly, new Karma feels like a lackluster version of Lux.
Seems more like lackluster Orianna to me.


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X Widow Maker X

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Thank you Larias.

old karma was stronger then many people giver her credit for. Her 2 Mantra charges along with what is probably the best shield and heal in the game, (aside from janna ult) made her almost impossible to kill when played right. Barrier was also very fun for this purpose. And to clarify im talking about AP karma people, being able to aoe nuke people while shielding and healing with lategame ability power. Roa into deathcap kind of build

I was very excited for the New Karma because changes to her kit, namely making her passive give her ult cooldown from autoattacks, seemed to be pushing her in a more hybrid direction.

I am now disapointed with her kit, namely the fact that her shield lost a lot of power, and is only good for engage/disengage. Her heal is no longer good for sustain unless your almost dead, and frankly this makes her kit more boring. Before you would have two mantra charges to choose which spells you wanted to imbue, and this was very much up to the player. Now there are LESS OPTIONS TO CHOOSE WHERE TO PUT YOUR ONE MANTRA.

her E is now only good for engage disengage and you will use your mantra for that purpose. Her W is only good Mantra'd if your almost dead, you will probably only use it in that situation. The rest of the time your going to be nuking *****es with Q. You turned karma into a boring old caster. There is no longer any thought as to where im going to put my one mantra for the most part, and the auto attacking cooldown seems to long to make hybrid karma viable.

Anyway i think she definately needs a more reliable heal mantra. Or some base heal stats maybe.


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Hevn

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Senior Member

03-30-2013

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Originally Posted by Silverrun View Post
As a guy who played Karma a month before her rework where the hell were all you hipster Karma players and your ideas for her ability buffs and changes before the rework even came into the heads of the fine folks at Riot no one cared about fixing her or buffing her and now suddenly now that she's got the rework all the Hipster leaguers are coming out of the woodworks every 5 minutes vomiting false nostalgia. She's damn good now her old passive was killing her, her heal was subpar weak range on the W, her attack damage made it so hard to last hit effeciently and her shield was the only good thing about her, Her mana cost were high as well as her cooldowns get with the times you babies.
Plenty of suggestions were made, but over a period of 2 years and not having a sticky thread regarding it on the GD (which is where most people make suggestions even though we probably shouldn't) I'm sure they weren't able to get through half of the suggestions.


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KillynU

Senior Member

03-30-2013

This is a well constructed post, I agree with OP on most points and ultimately miss her old passive.


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Silverrun

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trylobyte View Post
She's definitely a lot more boring than old Karma and her skill usage doesn't have the same satisfaction that her old Q and E did. I've stopped arguing power level, but I will continue to say she's just, not Karma. She's dull, uninspired, and frankly boring.

Uh. Tons of ideas were suggested. Hell, this isn't even the rework we were supposed to be getting from Riot - Another developer was supposed to be doing it but due to various reasons wasn't able to finish it, so we got something that was, essentially, completely out of left field.
Any yet all the threads in GD BK(before Karma) had been about Akali being oped, Darius being oped and Lux, Olaf and Rengar under powered, J4 too cheap, Taric broken, Diana broken. Not one fk was given about Karma until the rework. You never saw threads about what to build on Karma, Watch me pull a Karma pentakill or Amazing save karma vid. I'm guessing people that said I used to play karma quite a bit just played her for a few weeks before the rework and are complaining that the rework didn't address things in her kit that would have been their ideal karma. She is 10 times better than she was the only problem with her atm is the massive CD on her ult other than that she is a beast early game and she helps her team get kills quickly mid to late. She can even snag these kills if she wants too either through her Q or her Mantra E. Jeez people can't even give her a month before they start riding her and talking about how bad she is now. This is Karma now deal with it.


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cLo

Senior Member

03-30-2013

I think the biggest thing is the new Karma is simply not fun to play. I'm sorry if whoever worked on her reads this and feels hurt by this opinion but that's just how I feel.


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Larias

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Adjudicator

03-30-2013

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Originally Posted by cLo View Post
I think the biggest thing is the new Karma is simply not fun to play. I'm sorry if whoever worked on her reads this and feels hurt by this opinion but that's just how I feel.
This is really the issue. That spark is just missing.


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Slashmeehup

Senior Member

03-30-2013

This new Karma definitely doesn't feel like the old one. She has more range, some actual CC, good utility with zero AP as a support ought, and has more than 2 useful skills. Riot WTF! You ruined her!


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Trylobyte

Senior Member

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverrun View Post
Any yet all the threads in GD BK(before Karma) had been about Akali being oped, Darius being oped and Lux, Olaf and Rengar under powered, J4 too cheap, Taric broken, Diana broken. Not one fk was given about Karma until the rework. You never saw threads about what to build on Karma, Watch me pull a Karma pentakill or Amazing save karma vid. I'm guessing people that said I used to play karma quite a bit just played her for a few weeks before the rework and are complaining that the rework didn't address things in her kit that would have been their ideal karma. She is 10 times better than she was the only problem with her atm is the massive CD on her ult other than that she is a beast early game and she helps her team get kills quickly mid to late. She can even snag these kills if she wants too either through her Q or her Mantra E. Jeez people can't even give her a month before they start riding her and talking about how bad she is now. This is Karma now deal with it.
That's because people are more likely to post on a forum about something that is happening to them RIGHT NOW. You're going to see a lot of threads about popular champions because they're popular. Karma has been (perhaps erroneously, perhaps not) considered bottom tier for so long that nobody complained about her because nobody played her. You see the same thing with other joke champs - You didn't hear anything about Trundle until they announced he was being redone. You don't hear about Syndra, who is considered terrible in ranked, or Heimerdinger, who has been a troll pick practically since Season 1. The fans of these champions have pretty much resigned themselves to not being taken seriously so they don't post. That's why you're seeing a lot of Karma fans coming out of the woodworks now - They changed her and those fans she did have (who might not have played her in ranked) are not happy.


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Larias

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Adjudicator

03-30-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slashmeehup View Post
This new Karma definitely doesn't feel like the old one. She has more range, some actual CC, good utility with zero AP as a support ought, and has more than 2 useful skills. Riot WTF! You ruined her!
First paragraph says that the thread isn't about the power of her and you reply with comments about her power.

GJ!