The new Karma is rather stale and there are some design points I question

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Souijinn

Senior Member

04-07-2013

One thing that i really missed was Karma's Old passive. Her name implied what it was, If you dealt damage to Karma, chances were that she was gonna do more damage back to you. I loved that part about her and it made it very,how you say, suspenseful. Either you back and try again with lower AP, or you risk using your higher AP to kill or to die if you mess up the combo. Mantra E was aways the Poke abiity, and since she had 2 stacks of mantra, there was never a problem with doing that.

Now new karma has a passive i feel like should just be put with her ultimate and she should
1) get a new passive
or 2) have her old passive

All in all, she feels weaker and less team driven. Her passive allowed for those split second plays and 2 mantras allowed that. New Karma has only one that will undoubtedly be used on Q or W.


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Staubee

Senior Member

04-07-2013

My feelings... I feel like starting a buy back old Karma fund. Keep new Karma jut change her name and buff her/nerf her. Whatever you want but old karma and new Karma are different enough they came exist in the same world but I want to play old Karma...


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Technomancer

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Souijinn View Post
All in all, she feels weaker and less team driven. Her passive allowed for those split second plays and 2 mantras allowed that. New Karma has only one that will undoubtedly be used on Q or W.
Yup.

To be used to her best potential, Old Karma relied a lot on her team to know what she was capable of doing. Smart teams knew how much they could extend (to be savable), how to position to take best advantage of Shield Bombs, and to stand in the tether to get the speed buff. I think that's what made her most rewarding, Yeah, she could be frustrating if your team didnt take full advantage of her, but with a group that did...Those were some of my favorite games.

It feels like the New Karma is reliant on her team as well, for the wrong reasons. Unless her team is already effective in the fight, it feels like most of her abilities are worthless. To use her passive, you need to be in the fray using all of your mid-range abilities. To use her Mantra'd Q to its full potential, the enemy needs to be grouped up and cc'ed. To use her W without being instantly blown up, you've gotta be chasing someone. E has some very limited use in saving people, but it's only a shadow of its former glory.


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Prince Kassad

Senior Member

04-07-2013

I would be OK with Riot removing some of Karma's new range (on either her Q, E, or autoattacks) if they buffed her shield to compensate.

1st possible shield buff:
-Inspire cooldown reduced to 9 seconds from 12
(this would give her much more utility because she could spam the free MS more often)

2nd possible shield buff:
-Inspire shield amount increased to 80/125/170/215/260 from 80/120/160/200/240
-Inspire AP ratio increased to 60% from 50%
(this would just increase the tankiness per shield and it is the change I would rather see)

They also need to buff Karma's mantra version of W.
I would suggest increasing the AP ratio to 1.5% per 100 AP. Right now AP Karma simply does not get enough survivability from the self heal to warrant sacrificing all of her amazing damage and scaling on mantra Q. Increasing the AP scaling on mantra W would mean that even with high amounts of AP, Karma would get a comparable benefit from choosing to mantra W.


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DreMLoK

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larias View Post
she's a worse Leblanc
she is just worse at everything, just like before, but she isn't karma anymore


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Hazanshu

Senior Member

04-07-2013

I'm just so shocked at how different she is when they promised they would keep her play-style intact..they lied to all the true Karma players -.- I was excited for the rework but it was just *sigh* There's even an article on reign of gaming's website from Oldmaneyebrows , I'll quote some things I thought are true :P

You have to have to hit it, and it’s much more punishing to miss than many others. It is buggy (which will improve later, but buyer beware), and the AOE effect doesn’t go far for hitting multiple targets. On the plus side, it’s got a low cooldown, especially in later game. It’s crazy that with 30% cooldown at level 5 of this ability you can do cast a slow every 3.5 seconds. In late-game teamfights, a Mantra off this will deal 350 + .6 AP in an AOE, 435 + .9 AP on the initial hit.

For comparison, Janna’s shield is the exact same scaling but has a better cooldown and AP ratio, and bonus AD damage, and last five seconds instead of four.

Lots of cc and utility: movespeed buff / shield, slow/root, and skillshot slow.

- SHE HAD ALL OF THESE besides the root -.-

Poor pushing

Poor lane sustain


- morello said they wanted to tone down her pushing not completely gut it

Overall evaluation for mid pro play: uncommon at best. Solo queue: low/mid-tier.
She's still low as before hmm
Overall evaluation for support pro play: no. Solo queue: good.
For high-level play, Janna, Lulu, and other champions can have a better dedicated role
I was originally on the fence about mid Karma and while she is not as strong as old karma, she still has her uses.


I don't understand what they changed to make her better, overall she is still low tier, is not viable as a support, gameplay has been gutted all for what exactly? He even states that the old Karma was stronger, sure the old Karma was more niche but now she's just outclassed while filling more team comps .


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Zeriphor

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazanshu View Post
I'm just so shocked at how different she is when they promised they would keep her play-style intact..they lied to all the true Karma players -.- I was excited for the rework but it was just *sigh*
Where did they say they'd keep her playstyle intact?


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Larias

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Adjudicator

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by CycleOfHatred View Post
What I don't understand is that Larias is an Adjudicator. Why is he asking Riot? Doesn't he work with them or something? I'm utterly confused. Someone please give me a helping hand?
Adjudicators are beta testers who were invited before June 10th, 2009. OR something like that. Maybe July 10th? Not sure, I always forget.

Anyway, early early beta.


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MeowMixWarrior

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Sunday bump


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Staubee

Senior Member

04-07-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larias View Post
Adjudicators are beta testers who were invited before June 10th, 2009. OR something like that. Maybe July 10th? Not sure, I always forget.

Anyway, early early beta.
Well, I know one thing you are. Our beacon of hope on this issue.