[Open discussion]The complete "Counter this champion guide" (WIP)

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TheMagnificent

Member

03-17-2010

The Udyr advice you have up there is no good.

Udyr can be a tank, physical dps, ap dps, a combination of the two, a heavy lifeleech, and a physical nuke. A good udyr will have sprint and/or boots of swiftness, probably other movement speed items too. He is very good at getting to you and chasing you down. If you are ranged early game you can harass him very effectively, but for melee characters other than jax it is a bad idea to stand in combat with him. He will be watching to shield before your strongest attacks, so try and fake him out, moving in like you're about to throw something so he shields. Wait 2.5 seconds or so, then move in and actually hit him. For cc toons (except jax), stay away from him unless you've got a teammate. Silence and fear also work very well on him, since it stops him from activating any stances.


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Norak

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Senior Member

03-20-2010

You know who I would LOVE to be added to this list?
Mordekaiser..
Though, honestly, I don't expect more than "Just gank him early, hes no good then!" or "Just avoid him".

I would ask for a better response because neither works. Ganking early is possible, but hardly sets him back late game, he is still the overpowered tanking juggernaught of massive damage and a lifesteal/team mate stealing ult. For example:
I just had a match where our ashe went 27/something higher than 10 I think..

She was a very good ashe, was taking everyone down early game and had a very specific, yet unique build that allowed her to pretty much 1 hit twitch with her normal attack..

When she was fed 20 kills morde was fed something like 7. He the proceeded to kill her..
After that he lead his team of feeders to a win..

Also, just plain avoiding isn't possible/plausible because he can for 1 just BD then or for 2 find and kill you anway. Either way leads to your loss.

So please, if anyone has a solid way of beating morde I would like to hear it.


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peyo

Senior Member

03-20-2010

Shaco:
In the early game, if you see that Shaco used Deceive (the red smog is seen even while he's in grass), start moving back to your turret and after like 1s turn back immadiatelly, so you're standing face to face with invisible shaco, so he won't get his passive - +25% dmg
Clones are often quite easy to distinguish. Few ways to do that:
1) If Shaco's got golem/lizard buff, you know who's real, as the clone gets no buff.
2) If there's Janna, Zilean, TF (and probably some1 else I can't remember of right now) in their team, the real Shaco will have their passive skill up on buffs bar.
3) The clone gets way more damage, so if you hit him, you should know if he's real
4) The real shaco USUALLY stays back if he's low on HP and USUALLY is closer to you if he's chasing you
5) Only the real Shaco can use skills
6) and finally, if you know which one is a real one, or you're going to gank Shaco, mark him with G button (the blinking mark), so you will know who to focus on

As for Jacks, if you have any invisible ally, tell them to go and de-Jack the boxes, they'll just getfeared, but Jacks won't be able to attack them and will disappear after 5s

Also, Oracle is your friend. Shaco LOVES to run away/do ganks with his Deceive and that's the easiest way to counter him


Mordekaiser:
His power lies in his shield and ulti. Just make sure that there is no creeps around and he's much weaker. In the beggining he's very hard to kill, so you'll need to either gank him at level 1, before creeps goes out or get some ranger to keep getting his shield down, while other person harras him.


Poppy:
She's deadly and killing her solo will probably finish not like you'd like to. Try attacking her in the lanes, quite far from walls, so her stun rate will be riddiculous. If you see her using ulti, you should either fall back, if enemies are stronger, or rush if they are not. Don't forget that there is always 1 person able to attack her - he or she will have golden mark above them. Also, the 6s might go down faster, then she thinks.
If she's going an AP build, get some Magic Resists. Otherwise, rangers are the way to counter her. Her HP is low and will probably die of any good Ashe if there's no1 around.


Ezreal:
He can do **** if you're hiding behind creeps Just make sure that you're ready if he tries to teleport near you. Even hen, his attacks can be easily dodged.


Janna:
Dodging her whirlwind is the way to go. Unless that's DPS Janna (yeh I've seen one like that), she will do nothing, ofc if you can dodge the whirlwind.


Amumu:
Hide behind the creeps, so he can't catch you. Amumu is not as tanky as it should. If he throws bandages at your team and uses ulti, you are pretty much ****ed if there's any good AOE enemy around (Fiddle, Nunu, Gankplank, Twitch). Don't forget that you CAN still use your skills while his ulti is on. Flash works lovely. Also, his only good attack skill - Tantrum, is better the more he's attacked (-1s cooldown/every attack he gets) so try to fight him out of creeps - I have beaten too many self-confident people who thought that they can kill Amumu easily, as his stats sucks. If you are fightning around minions, he'll most likely ass rape you very quickly even with his silly stats.
Also don't forget that Bandage Toss is easily dodgeable if Amumu is chasing you, do a slalom if you think he's close enough to get you

hope it helps :]

//edit:
oh I remembered 2 more things...
For Jax, the best counter is.... a Sword of Divine he's quite useless w/o dodge

Also, one of best counters to Trynd's/Poppy's ulti as well as for Soraka is a silence... Nothing drives me as crazy as that.
Don't try to gank soraka in 5v5... you will end up with Ace, did by enemies ofc Just keep silencing/stunning her and focus others, squishy DPSs preferably


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TheMagnificent

Member

03-20-2010

@ norak

Mord is all about early game. The person who said to say away from him probably just meant don't engage him directly if you're laning with him. His shield maxes at 300 dmg so by mid game its useless. This is when you get him. Right when a good hit can take down his whole shield, but he doesn't have two or three big armours yet.

In laning unless you have at least two stuns/snares and a nuke between you and your partner this is basically no point in trying to kill him. He just throws out his shield charg cone and he has enough shield to just turn around and walk away.

In late game you really can just stay away from him. His ulti isnt that good unless you're already low health, his shield is useless and he's slow as hell. Kill him last in teamfights and get a friend to help you gank him if he's backdooring.

This is a very simple champion to deal with.


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roninsm

Senior Member

03-20-2010

There's really no nice way to put this, but 90% of the advice in the OP is absolute trash.


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AnalC

Senior Member

03-21-2010

I was surprised that I could not find anything on Gragas, Riot's own Obelix.

Here are some tips on countering dmg/tank Gragas:

- The worst thing heros can do to Gragas is prevent him leveling and farming, even if this does not mean killing him. His scaling is so bad that he needs his lvls and equipments maybe ven more than anybody else.

- The proper time to attack Gragas is when he has just used his body slam. Thats the point to snare him, for if his body slam is up again, he can body slam even while snared and thus escape.

- If you want to pursue Gragas, do it when his oom, because he cant body slam his way out. If he has mana and for example speed items or ghost hes beypnd your reach with, of course, the exception of highly coordinated attacks, and even after that he can body slam through the most walls.

- Never place your self between Gragas and his team, you find your self from the midst of the enemy - and if they play properly they will have feast on your flesh.

- Overall, when you want to engage Gragas wait until his drunken rage fades away.

- When Gragas is rolling a barrell toward you, dont back off but take few steps forward and the barrell is most likely used for vain.

- If dmg/tank Gragas is in the middle, dont send squishy rangeds against him - they will feed him and he will prevent middle laner from leveling at the same time - and between levels 10 - 17 Gragas is quite a monster, especially if enemies are few lvls behind him.


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HopSin

Member

03-21-2010

Malphite- Malphite is a very strong avoidance tank when build correctly one of the best ways to shut down a malphite is to break his granite shield early and dont let him run back out of combat to let his shield rechage and make sure to stay spread out giving him low choices for who to ult is a good way to make him a lot less dangerous with his ult.


I've played around 90 games overall with malphite and those are some of the best ways to shut him down


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peyo

Senior Member

03-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalC View Post
I was surprised that I could not find anything on Gragas, Riot's own Obelix.

Here are some tips on countering dmg/tank Gragas:

- The worst thing heros can do to Gragas is prevent him leveling and farming, even if this does not mean killing him. His scaling is so bad that he needs his lvls and equipments maybe ven more than anybody else.

- The proper time to attack Gragas is when he has just used his body slam. Thats the point to snare him, for if his body slam is up again, he can body slam even while snared and thus escape.

- If you want to pursue Gragas, do it when his oom, because he cant body slam his way out. If he has mana and for example speed items or ghost hes beypnd your reach with, of course, the exception of highly coordinated attacks, and even after that he can body slam through the most walls.

- Never place your self between Gragas and his team, you find your self from the midst of the enemy - and if they play properly they will have feast on your flesh.

- Overall, when you want to engage Gragas wait until his drunken rage fades away.

- When Gragas is rolling a barrell toward you, dont back off but take few steps forward and the barrell is most likely used for vain.

- If dmg/tank Gragas is in the middle, dont send squishy rangeds against him - they will feed him and he will prevent middle laner from leveling at the same time - and between levels 10 - 17 Gragas is quite a monster, especially if enemies are few lvls behind him.
I'd only add that Flash comes in very handy, if you see Gragass using his ulti on you to either toss you back or bring you closer to him and his allies. Flashing before the barrel drops (that's quite hard, cuz it goes fast, but it's doable) will toss you in the direction you want to and in the distance that is better for you


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Ponies Gonna Pwn

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Adjudicator

03-21-2010

Okay, who's the idiot that said Mundo is a tank again?


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Lprsti99

Junior Member

03-21-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aratrok the Merciless View Post
Okay, who's the idiot that said Mundo is a tank again?
Erm, 3k HP late game suggests that he is to me... at least, that's how I play him (outside of the obvious cleavercleavercleavercleavercleavercleavercleaverc leaver)


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