How to counter Kayle as adc?

Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vincent Stark312

Junior Member

03-26-2013

I was just torn up by kayle and a mf in my pass game, i was wondering what was i done wrong. I was playing graves and my bro is playing sona, we were just torn up in the beginning, I was force back to base at lvl 1, which i never had after a kayle and mf q plus a ignite. Than the rest of the game i was underlevel by 2. I have no idea what am i doing wrong, please how me out. Thank you


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Madraac

Senior Member

03-26-2013

The issue seems to be you going back to base at lvl 1. If the exchange happened before the first minion wave, then you should have ported back, but if the wave was out, you would be better served with going to tower, downing 2 pots, and staying in lane. Even though you would be behind in gold, you would still be passively getting XP.

If you were down to less than 100 hp, where they could dive you at the tower though, then you made the right call. However, make sure that you call out to your jungler for help and to try to zone your enemies. The idea of zoning is to push the enemy champs back away from the minion wave so that they cannot gain xp, allowing you to out level. That is gonig to be a hard task due to the match up you had where they would have 2 slows, a heal, and significant range, but in terms of actual champ matchups, you were pretty even. It sounds as though they zoned you though if you fell 2 levels behind in the early laning phase. Know your summoner spell timers, as you should not have had to worry about ignite until the 4 - 6 minute mark based on the info you provided, which would have given you some safe farming time relatively speaking.

Otherwise, your only option is to hug the tower side and try to freeze the lane on your side of the river, outside of the tower range, but close enough for you to get under your tower if/when they dive. By no means is this an easy task, and in some ways it often involves giving up a creep kill or two per wave so that the minions remain somewhat static, but it lets you keep level and hope for that gank so you can catch up with gold.

Last, you may need to modify your build and pick up a Doran's or two to keep your sustain going so that whenever they are forced out of lane, you can stay behind and free farm a wave or two. At the point you were describing, you were too far behind to worry about getting a kill, so giving up gold in the short term to try to gain gold and xp for the end game was about your only option.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vincent Stark312

Junior Member

03-26-2013

Okay, Thanks, however I am lvl 13 so no jungler was present,(the motto of a good jungler is no jungler at all for my level). I did try to freeze the lane but their garen keep coming down from top, so i was basicly a dead man walking everytime i leave the base. After 30 minutes i only have pd, ie doran blade, besker greaves and a vamp secpter. I was just wondering what should i do next time if i met something like this. The first trade was they came out of the bush, attack us from behind the minion wave, just the little gap between the tower and wave, so i was basically trap.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

03-26-2013

It's not so much about countering as it is outplaying.

In the screenshot I've attached, Cait and Kayle have a significant lane advantage based on champ selection alone.

However, we're able to dominate them. An early gank from lee sin allowed us to gain the lead in the lane, but more importantly, we made sure to keep that lead and momentum.

When you're behind in the lane, you need to be more defensive. The last thing you want to do is give up more kills in the lane when you're already behind, which not only allows them to snowball, but puts you that much farther behind.

Also, on graves, don't build the PD first, you need damage for your buckshot scaling and you're relying on infrequent hard hits, not sustained auto-attacks.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vincent Stark312

Junior Member

03-27-2013

Okay, i got IE first, since i heard that IE and PD sync very well, I know that i should get a attack damage as pure attack speed is just useless. Thank you for clearing it up, what item would you recommand as graves last defensive item


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SeCKS Egai

Senior Member

03-27-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Stark312 View Post
Okay, i got IE first, since i heard that IE and PD sync very well, I know that i should get a attack damage as pure attack speed is just useless. Thank you for clearing it up, what item would you recommand as graves last defensive item
IE/PD is pretty standard for most adcs.

On Vayne, PD can work first because of her silver bolts are based on 3 hits.

On Graves, You want damage (not necessarily IE) first more because buckshot and all of his real damage abilities scale off AD.

Supports play a huge factor in who does well bot lane. In one of my latest ranked games, I ran Cait, and was counter-picked with a Sivir. I couldn't get any decent harass as it usually got shielded and the enemy Leona was able to provide stronger lane presence than my Taric support.

There were definitely things I could have done differently to help alleviate the pressure, but the game was lost anyway as our jungle ww got countered hard and mid struggled just as much as we did bot.

Definitely one of the better Leona's I fought, but what made it work was the fact that I couldn't soften up Sivir and Leona had control of the bush. I should have trapped more in hindsight just specifically for her, since Siv would just get mana from it.