Jungling advice needed, please!

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Fiiz Khalifa

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Well, i basically need some advice on jungling. I personally feel like junglers have the most influence over the game in early, mid, and sometimes late game which is something i want being a solo player. I was in Bronze 5 but i climbed out to Bronze 4 and I find it very hard to carry a game as ADC if the rest of my team is slacking. I feel like i am a better player than the others in my league, but i am not better to a point where i can carry a couple baddies. Most of the time in Bronze the game is lost in laning phase, and as a ADC it is hard to have alot of presence on the map. This is why i want to become better at jungling. Instead of having one player carry the team, if a good jungler helps atleast 2 of the 3 lanes win then the whole team can be effective.

so i really no some advice on WHEN to gank, HOW often, and when is/isn't it a good time to wait a substantial amount of time to pull a gank off (Ex: waiting in lane bushes, etc.). My jungling route and buff control is fine.

TL;DR honestly just read it all, but anways i need advice on gank timing, when to gank which lanes, and how often i should gank while still being able to keep up my jungle route.


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Fiiz Khalifa

Senior Member

03-25-2013

bump. nobody wants to throw in some advice?


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Pewter Gym Brock

Senior Member

03-25-2013

This is something I have also been considering. I am Silver 1 ap mid main. I notice a lot of the time Jungle brings a strong presence into early to mid game. The role of a jungler is to secure objectives (Turrets, Dragon, baron) and to assist lanes in getting kills. Junglers become useless if the enemy team knows how to ward. Ask your lanes to buy vision wards on their first trip back to open up the door for the jungler to gank. You can never gank when your allies push their lanes. You NEVER tower dive unless you have full communication or understanding of what you and your team will do. The best time to gank is when the enemy team pushes. Just keep an eye open to each lane while you get jungle camps. Every game cannot be the same mechanic. You have to call your ganks by circumstances and you will only learn this by playing.


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Fiiz Khalifa

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockinBrock777 View Post
This is something I have also been considering. I am Silver 1 ap mid main. I notice a lot of the time Jungle brings a strong presence into early to mid game. The role of a jungler is to secure objectives (Turrets, Dragon, baron) and to assist lanes in getting kills. Junglers become useless if the enemy team knows how to ward. Ask your lanes to buy vision wards on their first trip back to open up the door for the jungler to gank. You can never gank when your allies push their lanes. You NEVER tower dive unless you have full communication or understanding of what you and your team will do. The best time to gank is when the enemy team pushes. Just keep an eye open to each lane while you get jungle camps. Every game cannot be the same mechanic. You have to call your ganks by circumstances and you will only learn this by playing.
thanks for the advice, i suppose i will continue practicing my decision making in normal games. hopefully it will all fall in place.


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totalwar235

Senior Member

03-25-2013

you gank the lanes that are losing. your main job is to help snowball lanes. there is alot to learn about ganking and honostly, im not that great at it. but if you can feed one lane or prevent one lane from feeding you did your job well. just never forget to farm!(at the end of the last game i played the enemy jungler was 18 and i was 12, this is bad)


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Fiiz Khalifa

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by totalwar235 View Post
you gank the lanes that are losing. your main job is to help snowball lanes. there is alot to learn about ganking and honostly, im not that great at it. but if you can feed one lane or prevent one lane from feeding you did your job well. just never forget to farm!(at the end of the last game i played the enemy jungler was 18 and i was 12, this is bad)
well, i thought the idea was to help the winning lanes gain a bigger lead. if someone is countered and can't stay alive or is getting stomped in lane, then it will probably take more than just a jungler to take down who they are laning with. that's just what i assumed was the idea, i'm probably wrong though. If i am then don't hesitate to down vote me into oblivion since i know you guys will anyway.


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Madraac

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaruuk View Post
well, i thought the idea was to help the winning lanes gain a bigger lead. if someone is countered and can't stay alive or is getting stomped in lane, then it will probably take more than just a jungler to take down who they are laning with. that's just what i assumed was the idea, i'm probably wrong though. If i am then don't hesitate to down vote me into oblivion since i know you guys will anyway.
The concept of jungling is providing for both, but most importantly is to try to keep a lane from falling behind. If one lane is snowballing without your help, you should not need to babysit or help them, and instead focus on the lanes that are not doing as well.

By ganking a lane you can either hopefully land an in-lane kill for you or the lane, or at least zone the enemy champ(s) to allow the lane to catch up a bit in XP. One of the problems for a jungler is that you have to balance everything out. You cannot wait idly by and hope for the enemy to push past you, nor can you jump in for the gank, and then stay in lane and farm. Every time you help farm a lane with another champ in it, means your team is falling behind just a little bit. Ideally, you jump in, zone or kill, and leave the lane, unless you are then pushing the tower or outright taking it down.

Once you get 2 lanes swinging in your favor, then you can begin to play the game of pushing lanes, and getting more aggressive in your counter jungling. Wards are a huge part of counter jungling, and you should try to ward areas with standard vision wards around their buffs, that are more likely to not be taken out by a pink. One of the tricks I try to do is pay attention when a champ goes back and see if they are carrying wards. If you only see the support buying, then you can safely assume that dragon is warded mid game, and early game the river bush is warded.

Last, do not be that jungler that says, "If you want me to gank, buy pink wards" as part of being a jungler is playing head games. You do not need to get kills to be successful as long as you provide an opportunity to zone the enemy. A common tactic is for me to run right through mid on a fly by to remind the enemy that I could be there, and then loop up into their jungle for a quick Wraith camp wipe, and then back through after the 30 seconds goes by and suddenly they are getting hit after I just left.


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Fiiz Khalifa

Senior Member

03-25-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madraac View Post
The concept of jungling is providing for both, but most importantly is to try to keep a lane from falling behind. If one lane is snowballing without your help, you should not need to babysit or help them, and instead focus on the lanes that are not doing as well.

By ganking a lane you can either hopefully land an in-lane kill for you or the lane, or at least zone the enemy champ(s) to allow the lane to catch up a bit in XP. One of the problems for a jungler is that you have to balance everything out. You cannot wait idly by and hope for the enemy to push past you, nor can you jump in for the gank, and then stay in lane and farm. Every time you help farm a lane with another champ in it, means your team is falling behind just a little bit. Ideally, you jump in, zone or kill, and leave the lane, unless you are then pushing the tower or outright taking it down.

Once you get 2 lanes swinging in your favor, then you can begin to play the game of pushing lanes, and getting more aggressive in your counter jungling. Wards are a huge part of counter jungling, and you should try to ward areas with standard vision wards around their buffs, that are more likely to not be taken out by a pink. One of the tricks I try to do is pay attention when a champ goes back and see if they are carrying wards. If you only see the support buying, then you can safely assume that dragon is warded mid game, and early game the river bush is warded.

Last, do not be that jungler that says, "If you want me to gank, buy pink wards" as part of being a jungler is playing head games. You do not need to get kills to be successful as long as you provide an opportunity to zone the enemy. A common tactic is for me to run right through mid on a fly by to remind the enemy that I could be there, and then loop up into their jungle for a quick Wraith camp wipe, and then back through after the 30 seconds goes by and suddenly they are getting hit after I just left.
Yeah, that seems to be my biggest issue is balancing things out. My main problem is if ganking multiple times, and not getting any kills. I end up falling behind in levels and my jungle route.


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Sylvr

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Senior Member

03-25-2013

I'm still trying to incorporate some of these things myself, but:

Assume the River is warded unless your laner tells you otherwise. This means just don't bother trying to gank from that angle. Instead, try to cross over into the enemy jungle and come from their own side. Try to get wards at the enemy Blue and Red so that you generally know where the enemy jungler is, and whether going into their side is safe or not. If you do this, then you can pretty much gank whenever you want so long as the enemy isn't under their tower.

Try to predict how the enemy is going to react to your gank. Check their level, and know their kits. Also try to ask the laner whether they have their summoners up or not. For instance, if you're ganking a Taric lane, he's probably going to stun you when you run for him. If you gank an Ahri, she's probably going to ult away if you can't chain-CC her. If you gank a Kayle/Tryndamere, they're going to ult eventually, and either run away, or turn on your or your laner and try to get a kill out of it. If you gank a Karthus, then he's going to Flash the first time, and then be completely screwed every time you come back for the next 5 minutes.

On that note, know how your LANER is likely to react. Know what CC and summoners he has, and check to see that he has the mana and HP to use them. If you're ganking for a Ryze, then chances are, he's going to bind them for you if he can get in range- however, if he's out of mana, or low on HP, then don't expect him to go for it, because he can't.

Be content with making the opponent blow their summoners! If they flash, then leave and come back again in a minute or so. Don't keep going after they've flashed unless you KNOW that you can get the kill and walk away clean. I've seen (and done) too many ganks where the Jungler tunnel-visions on the kill and keeps chasing them under the tower after they've already flashed and just ends up dying. The same goes for long CD ults. If you make an Ahri ult to avoid a gank, then just come back again in 30 seconds and get a free kill.

Don't be afraid to camp a lane. If you can kill them once, then you can probably kill them 3 times- especially if they didn't learn from their mistake. Flash has a 5 minute cooldown. You can get a lot of ganks on them in 5 minutes. If they don't take the hint and buy a ward, then make them pay dearly for it. Besides that, ganking someone like 3 times in a row CRUSHES their morale. I've gotten people to rage-quit by camping them before. I couldn't see their team chat, but I imagine that it's quite easy to turn them against each other if you kill the same guy several times. The best part is, once that player is weak enough, then even constant attention from their jungler won't be enough to get them back into it. Any Jungler can tell you stories about lanes that were too far gone to save. Make THEM have those lanes.

Along those lines: Know when a lane is beyond saving. Sometimes you just have to write a lane off if they're behind by too much. I've had lanes lose so hard that their opponent could just 1v2 us if/when I tried to gank. That's not worth your time. Instead, you should try to do the same thing to one of your lanes, and get them to a point where the enemy jungler can't touch them.

A lot of Junglers ask "But what do I do when all of my lanes are pushing? I can't dive their towers, and my lanes are overextending and blaming me when they get ganked!". The answer is to ward the enemy jungle and get your laner to follow you to hunt down the enemy jungler, and then converge on some objective, such as Dragon, or the tower that they were just pushing, or even roam as 2-3 and dive the guy in the next lane over. Swarming like this is ridiculously effective, and once again, it will crush the enemy teams' morale.

Most of the above advice is stuff that I've picked up from watching pro-streams such as Saintvicious or TheOddOne. I'm still working on incorporating this stuff into my own play, as it's hard to remember sometimes in the moment. Once I get this stuff down, I think it'll be an easy ride to Gold/Plat.