Another GD thread asking Riot to do something about Dominion

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Koravel

Senior Member

03-23-2013

I figured since Pain posted his GD thread in here, I would do the same. I'm afraid if I'm the only one that keeps bumping this over in GD, its going to get closed: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...1#post34731337

Quote:
My favorite game mode is not Summoner's Rift. Some would say that I'm not even really playing League of Legends, then. A lot of people wonder whether or not this is Riot's stance as well, given the lack of support for other modes, (no offense intended, this is simply the community's feeling).

I play Dominion. I have since the day the mode came out. My very first game went down to the wire, with the enemy nexus hitting zero when ours had 2 health left. I was hooked. The massive teamfights every 30 seconds, the emphasis on player v player skill, rather than whoever can last hit the most creeps- it was a game mode that was right up my alley.

Summoner's Rift became more and more boring, and I eventually ceased going back to it altogether. I haven't played an SR game in a very long time.

But for the past six months, essentially, you guys have all-but-ignored Dominion. You do not balance anything that needs balancing. Kassadin is broken on this map, Kha'Zix is little better. It would be a situation that we could partially resolve via the use of ranked, however, you refuse to give us ranked, saying that the playerbase isn't large enough, and to fracture it even further by splitting ranked and casual players would not be a good thing.

I, and practically every other dominion player, disagree. Ranked would separate the "try-hards" those of us who treat it as an actual legit game mode, from the casuals, those who play it for fun, (absolutely nothing wrong with that, btw). It would allow us to ban the most egregious champions, such as Kassadin, and thus provide temporary relief for a problem that apparently is very difficult to fix.

You have little to no manpower on this issue that we, the community, see. Supposedly, you have RiotNome working on Dominion issues, but I've seen Nome a grand total of one time in what seems like forever, and when I checked his match history a couple days back, it was full of Summoner's Rift games.

We, the community, have done a lot of things that help promote Dominion.

We have weekly tournaments, DominateDominion, where teams of five go head to head to determine the best team in the Dominion playing field, complete with cash prizes that you give to the winning teams. This is one of the few pluses I can give to Riot with regards to the dominion scene.

We have introduced the DominionMentor program, where some of the higher elo Dominion players play games with newcomers or old players who can't quite make the hurdle, giving tips and helping them in whatever way we can.

The community has carried this mode as far as we can. We need Riot to step up to the plate.

The inclusion of ranked mode will bring *more* players to the scene, not less. It is the natural competitiveness of human nature. Since you disabled the ability to check our elo via lolstats or w/e other program people might use, we have only rough estimates as to where we stand in relation to our peers. The last time I knew what my dominion elo was, was back in early August of 2012. Introducing ranked would allow the competitive side of things to stand out once again.

This is a plea to Riot to not let one of the most innovative maps on the MOBA scene simply die off. Please, do not stand idly by and do nothing while more and more players leave the game. You have appealed to those of us who never really liked the 60-minute long SR and DotA games. You have given us a MOBA which we love.

Don't let Dominion die.

I thought I would edit in some quotes from the developers from the first few months after Dominion was released. Hopefully, you can see why we feel abandoned, as nearly all of these quotes now inspire ironic laughter at how false they have proven to be. I realize that's harsh, but there's simply no other way to put it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brackhar View Post
We've done a lot of work on Dominion to make sure that all of the champions are fun to play both as and against in this game mode, and we've been able to accomplish a lot of this via adjusting the item shop and tweaking other features. Will Dominion have a different tier list than Summoner's Rift? Quite likely. However I'm not worried about balancing the two modes as you are. If anything Dominion should actually raise the bar of quality across the product, as a stronger eye will be given to making champions fun in both small skirmishes and larger team fights. This ultimately leads to better balanced champions as a whole and will improve the experience for everyone both in Classic and in Dominion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathstryker78 View Post
Speed is great, but speed doesn't help when you're waiting on a death countdown timer! Mwahaha!

That said, we fully expect that once the players get Dominion, we'll see all kinds of crazy team builds, and we'll be watching closely to ensure we keep the game mode as balanced as possble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Early on, for sure. This was the same way on SR too (though how soon we forget that discovery always makes things wild west!)

We are doing Dominion Ranked after the Wild West phase has settled. There's no reason to assume it won't have a competitive nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brackhar View Post
It sounds like you're presuming this new game mode is some little small side thing that won't be supported or that deep. That's not the case at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brackhar View Post
Ultimately we felt it's important that all champions are viable in Dominion and that they behave mechanically the same as they do on SR. It's be a pretty poor experience if Soraka's Wish as an example had a 120 second cooldown on SR but a 40 second cooldown on Dominion but with different numbers; Soraka players would start to think they were fundamentally playing a different champion. We've mananged to accomplish this by adjusting the item shop and making various other tweaks, and overall we feel we've been quite successful in hitting the necessary bar.

Regarding your specific question, my personal belief is that if we can balance and adjust our champions so that they are viable in both Classic and Dominion we'll ultimately have a better and more fun game as a whole. Remember that SR isn't only made up of 5v5 team fights in the end game, but that there's also a lot of one on one, two on two, and general skirmishes that occur, especially in the beginning and middle of the game. We've seen historically that champions that only excel in the 5v5 scenario are frankly somewhat boring until the 20-25 minute mark is reached, and similarly champions that can not contribute to the team fights become less entertaining as the game goes on. So why not focus on trying to pull champions away from those extremes when possible? This will ultimately improve the experience for everyone both in Classic and in Dominion.

Finally, I'd not worry about a lack of support for Dominion. We learned a lot from our release of Twisted Treeline and we can apply a lot of those lessons to the Crystal Scar as well, including the amount of support a new map needs post launch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brackhar View Post
Depends on your guys, really. We want to turn it on when you guys feel that things are ready for ranked play, both in terms of the map balance and general awareness of how to play the map.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

FDru

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
I, and practically every other dominion player, disagree.
Except for those with common sense right?

Dominion has a lot of problems. "Doesn't have ranked" isn't one; and the excuses Riot gave for not turning it on are legitimate (even if they aren't the actual reasons they haven't enabled ranked, which they probably aren't).

Dominion is my favorite map, and I want it to get attention as much as anybody else. But this "ranked will fix it" mentality is nothing more than wishful thinking that needs to stop. Ranked did not make TT any less of an unbalanced, broken, joke of a map, and it won't do that for Dominion either. It'll just make it another mode for bad players to "earn" rewards they don't deserve in.

Dominion needs actual help, and actual changes. Then it can get ranked.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TechPrince

Senior Member

03-23-2013

^ this.
Ranked will not stop the unbalance of this map / champions. It will however attract more attention. There is a draft mode available but nobody plays it simply because of less players and fear of favorite champion getting banned (mostly this). There are other ways to make this mode popular starting with the fking balance, ranked would be the last in the queue.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Koravel

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Ranked mode will not fix it in and of itself, but it will, as tech said, attract more attention to the map. The first and foremost concern for dominion has to be the lack of a playerbase, which is getting smaller every day. The inclusion of ranked mode will bring more players to the scene. Anything that will bring more players in is a good thing.

As well, I entirely disagree with you that ranked would not make it more balanced. Being able to ban Kassadin in every game is a huge plus, for starters.

Not to mention that reading that in context would be in response to Riot's reason for not including ranked, which is a load of horse ****. You may say that ranked will not fix everything, which is correct, but it's not going to lead to even less players being able to play together, which was Riot's reason for not giving us ranked, iirc.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Except for those with common sense right?

Dominion has a lot of problems. "Doesn't have ranked" isn't one; and the excuses Riot gave for not turning it on are legitimate (even if they aren't the actual reasons they haven't enabled ranked, which they probably aren't).

Dominion is my favorite map, and I want it to get attention as much as anybody else. But this "ranked will fix it" mentality is nothing more than wishful thinking that needs to stop. Ranked did not make TT any less of an unbalanced, broken, joke of a map, and it won't do that for Dominion either. It'll just make it another mode for bad players to "earn" rewards they don't deserve in.

Dominion needs actual help, and actual changes. Then it can get ranked.
...I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with FDurr...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

SuperQuackDuck

Senior Member

03-23-2013

I agree with fdru to the extent that ranked dom by itself will not solve all of dom's problems just as a good marketing campaign by itself wont miraculously save a struggling restaurant.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NamKim

Senior Member

03-23-2013

To be honest, the things I want Riot to do for Dominion makes the implementation of Ranked Mode seem easy. So, if Riot just suddenly implements Ranked, this would not make me happy at all since I consider it an easy way out. If the implementation of Ranked is a first step and a sign of Riot's desire to truly support Dominion, that's another story. For me, Ranked should be taught as a step in the right direction, not the goal.

But I feel that Riot Games constantly reminding everyone that "they want the best, so they hire the best, and compensate them greatly for their services" also means I can have high reasonable expectations.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

A Slime Appears

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel34 View Post
Ranked mode will not fix it in and of itself, but it will, as tech said, attract more attention to the map. The first and foremost concern for dominion has to be the lack of a playerbase, which is getting smaller every day. The inclusion of ranked mode will bring more players to the scene. Anything that will bring more players in is a good thing.
Shouldn't we attract attention to the map after Kass, the capture beam bug (assuming it wasn't, hard to tell when it isn't in the patch notes), and the cursor bug are fixed? Why attract a **** ton of people just to scare them away because the actual problems haven't been fixed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koravel34 View Post
As well, I entirely disagree with you that ranked would not make it more balanced. Being able to ban Kassadin in every game is a huge plus, for starters.
Except even DD teams, which are the group of people that should know he needs to be banned 100% of the time the most, don't ban him 100% of the time. If I'm playing a ranked game and my team captain derps, what do? Nothing. The problem still exists. I really don't want to have to play against Kass just because my team captain is an idiot. Don't say "oh well, people will probably ban him". Just fix him


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

KaWraith

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
...I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with FDurr...
Despite often being unpleasant, Fdru makes very intelligent observations, and I have come to respect his opinions.

IMO, giving dominion ranked will boost the player-base, revitalize the "high elo" scene, and cause a lot of the complaints on the forum to go away. It is the cheapest, easiest, laziest and least effective way to go about things, which seems to be Riot's excuse for not doing it. However, a lot of people are feeling disenfranchised by dominion due to Riot doing "nothing" until they will magically be ready soon(tm). Riot wants to wait until they have the perfect solution and then reveal it fully formed and ready to go.

I think that Riot should give us ranked, in as much as it will be throwing a bone to (mostly the high elo) dominion players, and make us feel like we haven't been totally abandoned. Even if they don't get around to the real support, solutions and tweaks that Dominion needs for a while, I would rather have something now, than wait for a magical dominion fix to land in 'Season 5'. Dominion is going to become a wasteland if Riot keeps ignoring it. What happens when Feedski gets so fed up he decides to throw in the towel? If none of us are left by the time dominion gets fixed; is that really worth it?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Koravel

Senior Member

03-23-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Slime Appears View Post
Shouldn't we attract attention to the map after Kass, the capture beam bug (assuming it wasn't, hard to tell when it isn't in the patch notes), and the cursor bug are fixed? Why attract a **** ton of people just to scare them away because the actual problems haven't been fixed?

Except even DD teams, which are the group of people that should know he needs to be banned 100% of the time the most, don't ban him 100% of the time. If I'm playing a ranked game and my team captain derps, what do? Nothing. The problem still exists. I really don't want to have to play against Kass just because my team captain is an idiot. Don't say "oh well, people will probably ban him". Just fix him
I've never seen a DD game where a team that wasn't a newcomer to the scene let Kassadin through.

The hope would be that attracting a **** ton of people, as you put it, would cause that same **** ton of people to clamor for Riot to do some more fixing of the map. I am simply concerned that by the time Riot gets around to rolling out a fix for Kassadin, the map will be dead. If it isn't already.

I completely agree that Kassadin must be fixed, and that ranked is only a band-aid on a deep wound, but it's one that necessary if Dominion is to survive. We have to have a competitive scene.

Now it wouldn't be necessary to have ranked if Riot came out and said, "Guys we don't think Dom is quite ready for ranked just yet, here's some things we think need to be fixed first. Here are some ways we were thinking about fixing them."

That's entirely different, perfectly understandable, and perfectly acceptable. There has been a complete lack of communication on Riot's end for a very long time, and we need them to step up to the plate and give us some information on what is going on, whether there are plans for Dominion, etc.

Even if you don't think instituting ranked right now would be the best option, instituting ranked should be the end-goal of any changes to the map. Riot just needs to talk to us, have an actual conversation about their ideas for Dominion.


12