Beta Version or 12/2/09 version?

Beta Deathfire 4 26.67%
New Deathfire 11 73.33%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

Deathfire Feedback

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Dcgreen

Senior Member

12-05-2009

I find the new deathfire concept to be very lackluster as an "anti-tank" item that it was pitched to us as by Zileas.

In a perfect world if you rush it without getting slaughtered lets say you get it at 15 mins, any good tank will have easily 100 MR at this point bringing this items effectiveness to 12.5%. If you rush the item you will have no HP though and as a champ that gets this item you will prob have 1500 hp mayb and will get the cast off and probably die. Regardless the tank probably has about 2200-2500 hp at this time in the game because thats pretty much standard so if you use it you will do 312 dmg to a tank with 2500hp. Its like an extra spell with a 1min cd. Hardly "anti-tank" when it isnt any more significant then your base spells.

So with that in mind lets say you took the time to get some hp items and then decided to make this item. Say you make it 30 mins in. Their tank most likely has 3k hp and probably 150+ MR, lets say 150 for the sake of math. Their MR reduces spells by about 58% give or take and lets say you somehow managed to get 200ap without old mejais your deathfire will do 31% of their health which is now 13% after their MR redux which is 390 damage. This is only a 80 damage increase from my example above, still acting lackluster against the allmighty tanks when its supposed to be casters "anti-tank" item.

Its uses are also pretty meak vs carries and support because their health pools SHOULD be relatively low, although with this metagame they are usually also in the 3000+ range. But if you are a caster and you cant kill a carry with your basic set of spells and need the assistance of deathfire you are definately doing something wrong. So I ask that you please revert is back to the old AoE static field inspired version that it was before. Its effect was much more consistent and actually made it worth getting and gave casters a way to support their team by casting their spells even if they were defensive, such as fiddles fear, giving them additional offensive support.


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God SoRcuS

Senior Member

12-05-2009

No, the original deathfire grasp would have totally been game-breaking to be honest. I totally disagree you stating that any good tank, will have 100 MR by 15 mins. Absolutely not. There are armor tanks and health tanks in this game and an item like old Deathfire will force all of them go for MR instead which is totally counter productive and game breaking, because at that point all of game is revolving around if any enemy team has stacked deathfire or not.

The current deathfire, I feel are strong enough.


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JayceJa

Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by God SoRcuS View Post
No, the original deathfire grasp would have totally been game-breaking to be honest. I totally disagree you stating that any good tank, will have 100 MR by 15 mins. Absolutely not. There are armor tanks and health tanks in this game and an item like old Deathfire will force all of them go for MR instead which is totally counter productive and game breaking, because at that point all of game is revolving around if any enemy team has stacked deathfire or not.

The current deathfire, I feel are strong enough.
having 100 MR 15 mins is quite easy, mercury treads a chalice and base MR gives you over 100, and farming them both in 15 mins is not too unlikely, but having them two items first means you have no items in health or armor at all, and while not having health makes deathfire even less effective against you, doing so leaves you vulnerable to the rest of the team, namely physical champions

i also dont think old deathfire would have been too strong if they had limited it with a cooldown, since it is current health, and proced on nukes each proc of it would be doing less damage since your nuke and the previous procs had slowed it down, but it would not have made too much difference to the strength of the item anyway other than prolonged battles where you can cast much more spells

so reverting to the old one would not do anything to help it become more anti-tank, but i do agree the current one is not doing what it was intended for


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CyberMonkey

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Senior Member

12-05-2009

You guys completely disregard the other stats of deathfire grasp: it has great MP regen for being a AP item; on top of that, it has 15% cooldown redux, making it a quite a deal if your build doesn't care for the attack speed of Nashor's tooth. For casters like Nunu that don't need the mana of an Archangels, but need all the ap they can get, deathfire grasp should be their number one choice. Add Haunting Guise and you have full cooldown redux (w/ runes) and all the mana and heal regen you need. I see the % damage as a bonus; it is there to punish unsuspecting victims who forgot to add MR.


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JayceJa

Member

12-05-2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberMonkey View Post
You guys completely disregard the other stats of deathfire grasp: it has great MP regen for being a AP item; on top of that, it has 15% cooldown redux, making it a quite a deal if your build doesn't care for the attack speed of Nashor's tooth. For casters like Nunu that don't need the mana of an Archangels, but need all the ap they can get, deathfire grasp should be their number one choice. Add Haunting Guise and you have full cooldown redux (w/ runes) and all the mana and heal regen you need. I see the % damage as a bonus; it is there to punish unsuspecting victims who forgot to add MR.
you do realize you COMPLETELY missed the point of the topic, and proved our points?


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innociv

Senior Member

12-05-2009

Would be interesting to have it do extra damage based on how much MR they have, so it's weak against squishies and strong against tanks.


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Patyrn

Senior Member

12-05-2009

I'm sure the other deathfire is stronger, but it was also probably overpowered. The new deathfire is quite good vs any hero, including tanks.


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Evilpigeon

Adjudicator

12-06-2009

it's the new, 'get this for reasonable early ap' item and I find it fiddly to use and a bit underwhelming at the moment. Don't get me wrong the free spell is very nice but it's going to be difficult to remember to use it until they finally allow us to move our items around in our slots :P

I think I like Jayce's idea of a proc on spell cast item, kinda like a mix between sheen and blood razor, with some balancing of percentages it'd make a much more effective item imo.


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Benoit

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Senior Member

12-06-2009

Deathfire Grasp is the new Meija's


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Patyrn

Senior Member

12-06-2009

Quote:
it's the new, 'get this for reasonable early ap' item and I find it fiddly to use and a bit underwhelming at the moment. Don't get me wrong the free spell is very nice but it's going to be difficult to remember to use it until they finally allow us to move our items around in our slots :P
Rebind whatever slot it ends up in to a key. You'll have to do it again pretty much every game, but that's not hard. I use T because it's easy to hit.


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