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Got placed in silver...means nothing.

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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

03-20-2013

LP doesn't matter when it comes to promo games though. You get to 100 LP you have to play 2-3 games that will equate to a net gain of 0 LP and a loss of up to 30 LP. A player being "showered" with LP doesn't mean anything when the LP you should be receiving is thrown out null and void to your LP statistics but still influences your MMR.

As basis, when I was in Silver tier. I went up and down between Silver 1-2 around 15-16 times. My win/loss (WL) ratio was 52.37% until I got locked into the clamp of division 1 top level LP restriction. As a result I had to play enough games, was somewhere around 30-40 games to raise my WL up to 54.91%. Only when I got to 54~55% did I manage to get into promotions to get into gold. 2 games I was in Gold. I've kept my WL at such a level. As a result I jumped immediately from gold 5 to gold 3. Had a loss streak this week that dropped my WL back to 53.87% and stuck me in gold 4. Fought in and out of promo's in gold 4 9 times before I finally got promoted back up to gold 3 with an WL of 53.92%. So about 15 games gave me .05% to my WL yet I went up a division? However, for silver 1-2 it was literally 1-2% each time before I could even get into promo's and the corresponding losses the next few games dropped it back.

Divisions= Bad Tiers=Good

Get rid of one, keep the other. Problem (and a lot of frustration from many players) solved.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
WhiteHatCracker:
LP doesn't matter when it comes to promo games though. You get to 100 LP you have to play 2-3 games that will equate to a net gain of 0 LP and a loss of up to 30 LP. A player being "showered" with LP doesn't mean anything when the LP you should be receiving is thrown out null and void to your LP statistics but still influences your MMR.

As basis, when I was in Silver tier. I went up and down between Silver 1-2 around 15-16 times. My win/loss (WL) ratio was 52.37% until I got locked into the clamp of division 1 top level LP restriction. As a result I had to play enough games, was somewhere around 30-40 games to raise my WL up to 54.91%. Only when I got to 54~55% did I manage to get into promotions to get into gold. 2 games I was in Gold. I've kept my WL at such a level. As a result I jumped immediately from gold 5 to gold 3. Had a loss streak this week that dropped my WL back to 53.87% and stuck me in gold 4. Fought in and out of promo's in gold 4 9 times before I finally got promoted back up to gold 3 with an WL of 53.92%. So about 15 games gave me .05% to my WL yet I went up a division? However, for silver 1-2 it was literally 1-2% each time before I could even get into promo's and the corresponding losses the next few games dropped it back.

Divisions= Bad Tiers=Good

Get rid of one, keep the other. Problem (and a lot of frustration from many players) solved.

Its just insurance that players don't get a lucky streak into the next permanent tier, its not uncommon to jump up a bit after breaking through a tier because your MMR is higher, it happened to me silver to gold, and gold to plat.

This isn't a bad thing either, it can be a little inconvenient at times, but it doesn't desecrate the integrity of your matches at all(its all MMR still working) and in the end it balances out. So complaints are just for impatient people.


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

03-21-2013

I'm not even complaining about being impatient. Just don't see a reason for people to have to win a minimum 2 best of 3s then compete and win a best of 5 if you aren't already clamped by LP restriction.

The LP restriction, and tier system would be much easier flowing, less complaints, and only remove the # of the divisions and just make it a large combined list of people in the league. Climbing up a single ladder would be much more satisfying and it gives people a good outlook on how they are improving compared to people they see around them. Like 2 of my friends were placed in my silver league with me so I compared how they climbed up the ladder against each other. 1 might climb a few slots each day while the other might climb 1. Or they both might drop. However, when 1 got dropped to silver 3 he quit the game so it's pointless to even watch him anymore.

The reason he quit was because he got into promo to get back to silver 2, 32 times. Every time he got into promo it was always 1 win 2 losses. So only 1 win would put him back in promo. As a result he got frustrated that he couldn't even get back up to where he was despite a postive Win/Loss % above 50%. Just a suggestion to Riot that would make the game more exciting. When you get up to the top of the tier it would be a lot more challenging and satisfying to get promoted because you would go up to a whole new ladder and start climbing again rather than knowing you'll have to grind out divisions again.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
WhiteHatCracker:
I'm not even complaining about being impatient. Just don't see a reason for people to have to win a minimum 2 best of 3s then compete and win a best of 5 if you aren't already clamped by LP restriction.

The LP restriction, and tier system would be much easier flowing, less complaints, and only remove the # of the divisions and just make it a large combined list of people in the league. Climbing up a single ladder would be much more satisfying and it gives people a good outlook on how they are improving compared to people they see around them. Like 2 of my friends were placed in my silver league with me so I compared how they climbed up the ladder against each other. 1 might climb a few slots each day while the other might climb 1. Or they both might drop. However, when 1 got dropped to silver 3 he quit the game so it's pointless to even watch him anymore.

The reason he quit was because he got into promo to get back to silver 2, 32 times. Every time he got into promo it was always 1 win 2 losses. So only 1 win would put him back in promo. As a result he got frustrated that he couldn't even get back up to where he was despite a postive Win/Loss % above 50%. Just a suggestion to Riot that would make the game more exciting. When you get up to the top of the tier it would be a lot more challenging and satisfying to get promoted because you would go up to a whole new ladder and start climbing again rather than knowing you'll have to grind out divisions again.

Riots team of developers with their market research(not in just LoL but other games) have suggested the opposite is true, people don't like climbing a single ladder. They want these little challenge matches to make them be more exciting.

You're friend didn't really deserve to be much higher than silver 2 at all, if he even deserved it. At a certain point, he stopped winning over 50% if he consistently was going 1-2 in his division series(that's 33% not 50%) so the fact that he failed 32 times does not concern me, sounds like he just needs to get better and increase his winrate at the higher levels(that level being silver 2)


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Selcopa:
Riots team of developers with their market research(not in just LoL but other games) have suggested the opposite is true, people don't like climbing a single ladder. They want these little challenge matches to make them be more exciting.

You're friend didn't really deserve to be much higher than silver 2 at all, if he even deserved it. At a certain point, he stopped winning over 50% if he consistently was going 1-2 in his division series(that's 33% not 50%) so the fact that he failed 32 times does not concern me, sounds like he just needs to get better and increase his winrate at the higher levels(that level being silver 2)


over 50% total win/loss ratio. Btw rethink your math. 1 game to go promo. 1 win 2 losses. That's 4 games per promo entrance/failure 2/2 aka 50%. He isn't going to get better and increase his winrate he quit the game and ran off to starcraft 2 because he said "at least here it's based on player performance not teams". Did he deserve to be silver 2? no did he deserve to be silver 1. I'd say yes. He plays on a consist level evenly with me and sometimes better yet I've gotten up to gold 3. It was luck of the teams that got me up while he got stuck with bad teams/trolls and ended up dropping further and further making it even worse to try and climb back up.

Doesn't make it more exciting, it makes it more frustrating for people trying to climb up to where they belong. Yes, I know some people believe they belong much higher than their actual skill. However, I've learned I'm probably a gold 3-4 div player which is mid-gold. Was in season 2 and in this season i've slowly gotten better so i imagine i'll move up. This still does not excuse the fact that I know some people are better than me but are still stuck below me on the tier.

Btw in silver 3 when he won he would gain 15-20 points, while losing 35-40. That doesn't make sense when his win/loss ratio was only .9% less than mine when I was in silver 3 but I was gaining 35-40 per win and losing 15-20.


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PikaRioCed

Senior Member

03-21-2013

It's not just based on your W/L%. There are many bronze/silver players with a 51% W/L, yet a low MMR. They'd have to keep up this positive 51%+ W/L for a long, long time, until their MMR hikes up sufficiently, especially if it was really low to begin with.


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Arikron

Member

03-21-2013

You know, I'll just do you all a favor and excuse myself from the game.

Last game I played, awesome game. We won bot lane, they won top, and mid was even.....buttttttttt our bronze iv jungler was 3/15 amongst mostly silver tiered players.

You can preach this hidden mmr bull**** all you want. But the fact of the matter is, it's ****ing broken, and it's ****ing retarded.

Flame me all you want, it's cool, I'm finished with this trash. I will have ZERO problem finding a much more well rounded game. Instead of facts I can't ****ing see determining who I play with yet I'm ****ing silver and I am flooded with bronze...

If you think this is "WORKING AS INTENDED" and "AN ACCURATE MEASUREMENT OF SKILL IN A COMPETITIVE ENVIORNMENT" then y'all keep slamming your head against this wall.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna go **** my girlfriend, settle down in my brand new house in Florida, rip my brand new bong, and laugh at all you nerds dealing with the worst matchmaking system I've ever seen in a video game.

Good riddance to this ****.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
WhiteHatCracker:
over 50% total win/loss ratio. Btw rethink your math. 1 game to go promo. 1 win 2 losses. That's 4 games per promo entrance/failure 2/2 aka 50%. He isn't going to get better and increase his winrate he quit the game and ran off to starcraft 2 because he said "at least here it's based on player performance not teams". Did he deserve to be silver 2? no did he deserve to be silver 1. I'd say yes. He plays on a consist level evenly with me and sometimes better yet I've gotten up to gold 3. It was luck of the teams that got me up while he got stuck with bad teams/trolls and ended up dropping further and further making it even worse to try and climb back up.

Its not about over TOTAL, its about your current winrate.

For example, I started at Silver 1, which means now that im in platinum, my total winrate is above 50% if I were to lose 30 games in a row, my total winrate would STILL be over 50%

But after losing 30 games in a row should I be mad that im losing more lp for losses than gaining for wins? No, because my CURRENT winrate is significantly below 50% even though my season 3 winrate is above 50%, my winrate at my current rating(for me plat, for him silver) is not breaking 50%

And that math is fine, he's still not winning over 50% including the division series, ergo he hasn't earned the right to move up.

He isn't going to move up because he got mad that he peaked in skill and quit, I don't really care, to me this is actually the system working he's not good enough to make the next division and got mad.

Quote:
Doesn't make it more exciting, it makes it more frustrating for people trying to climb up to where they belong. Yes, I know some people believe they belong much higher than their actual skill. However, I've learned I'm probably a gold 3-4 div player which is mid-gold. Was in season 2 and in this season i've slowly gotten better so i imagine i'll move up. This still does not excuse the fact that I know some people are better than me but are still stuck below me on the tier.

Show me one person who is stuck. Ive been searching for 2 years now for this magical player, the fact is players are biased, they see a couple good games from a player or themselves, and they think that's how they play normally, so they feel they belong with players like that as well, but they don't play like that. There's hundreds of little mistakes they do that they don't even see, and that's why they are stuck where they are.

In fact your best exception to this idea of someone being stuck, is me.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/22904599
If the graph was longer you would see that ive been consistently gaining nearly100 MMR per week for about 2 months now. I personally believe I can probably play at the diamond level but we wont know that until I start playing against them and see what kind of edges I can create, until then I'll continue to climb and abuse my edges in the matches that I am queued

But the key thing with that is, i'm not stuck, im moving, nobody is "stuck" and no one has shown me a player that deserves to be higher but cant climb

Quote:
Btw in silver 3 when he won he would gain 15-20 points, while losing 35-40. That doesn't make sense when his win/loss ratio was only .9% less than mine when I was in silver 3 but I was gaining 35-40 per win and losing 15-20.

No.

You just said he's winning 50%(1 to get into division series 1 division series match and losing 2 division series matches).

I don't believe -40 for a single loss(unless he was still in his first 77 matches then it makes sense) but like you said, his problem wasn't in gaining enough LP for division series, he just wasn't good enough to play at the next silver level consistently, 32 times is no accident.


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Baxter the Teddy

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Arikron:
You know, I'll just do you all a favor and excuse myself from the game.

Last game I played, awesome game. We won bot lane, they won top, and mid was even.....buttttttttt our bronze iv jungler was 3/15 amongst mostly silver tiered players.

You can preach this hidden mmr bull**** all you want. But the fact of the matter is, it's ****ing broken, and it's ****ing retarded.

Flame me all you want, it's cool, I'm finished with this trash. I will have ZERO problem finding a much more well rounded game. Instead of facts I can't ****ing see determining who I play with yet I'm ****ing silver and I am flooded with bronze...

If you think this is "WORKING AS INTENDED" and "AN ACCURATE MEASUREMENT OF SKILL IN A COMPETITIVE ENVIORNMENT" then y'all keep slamming your head against this wall.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna go **** my girlfriend, settle down in my brand new house in Florida, rip my brand new bong, and laugh at all you nerds dealing with the worst matchmaking system I've ever seen in a video game.

Good riddance to this ****.


^ guys like this make me lol.

Starts the argument, loses, than attempts to dissuade the fact he loss said argument with show of RL strength that means very little when he has no idea what the rest of us do RL and has even less evidance to back up his point than he did before.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

03-21-2013

Quote:
Arikron:
You know, I'll just do you all a favor and excuse myself from the game.

Last game I played, awesome game. We won bot lane, they won top, and mid was even.....buttttttttt our bronze iv jungler was 3/15 amongst mostly silver tiered players.

You can preach this hidden mmr bull**** all you want. But the fact of the matter is, it's ****ing broken, and it's ****ing retarded.

Flame me all you want, it's cool, I'm finished with this trash. I will have ZERO problem finding a much more well rounded game. Instead of facts I can't ****ing see determining who I play with yet I'm ****ing silver and I am flooded with bronze...

If you think this is "WORKING AS INTENDED" and "AN ACCURATE MEASUREMENT OF SKILL IN A COMPETITIVE ENVIORNMENT" then y'all keep slamming your head against this wall.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna go **** my girlfriend, settle down in my brand new house in Florida, rip my brand new bong, and laugh at all you nerds dealing with the worst matchmaking system I've ever seen in a video game.

Good riddance to this ****.

You go do that.

In the meantime, my offer is still up to anyone, $25 RP card to ANYONE who can show me a player who consistently plays higher than the level they are placed at, but are stuck because the system isn't working as intended, and isn't an accurate measurement of skill


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