Got placed in silver...means nothing.

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GGroovy

Junior Member

03-20-2013

I really don't like this system at all, one of thing i can't understand is i play duo with a friend in GOLD DIV3 and im SILVER 1 91pnts, recently i won two games vs all people GOLD 2,GOLD1, and i won 2pnts for each game. I understand that i must won less points when im close to promotion but really? 2 pnts vs gold people when im silver? can someone explain that to me? they were 5GOLD vs 3GOLD and 2 SILVERS and i won 2pnts. (sorry for my english i'm from Argentina.)


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Selcopa

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGroovy View Post
I really don't like this system at all, one of thing i can't understand is i play duo with a friend in GOLD DIV3 and im SILVER 1 91pnts, recently i won two games vs all people GOLD 2,GOLD1, and i won 2pnts for each game. I understand that i must won less points when im close to promotion but really? 2 pnts vs gold people when im silver? can someone explain that to me? they were 5GOLD vs 3GOLD and 2 SILVERS and i won 2pnts. (sorry for my english i'm from Argentina.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLoK6rCBcF0


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Arikron

Member

03-20-2013

So then if solo/duo measures consistency, in a true "competitive environment" ....it's absurd to mix tiers.

IMO, you have to seperate them!

If each tier represents a higher or lower consistency, then mingling bronze ones and silver fours won't project an accurate game. Even if they distribute four bronze players amongst six silvers, the people already in silver have a different tier of players contributing to their games, which is skewing their "competitive ranking"

If they distribute a handicap evenly (tier mixing) then that is not true competition. If, that is, being silver, or gold, etc. means anything.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arikron View Post
So then if solo/duo measures consistency, in a true "competitive environment" ....it's absurd to mix tiers.

IMO, you have to seperate them!
Your opinion is wrong

Quote:
If each tier represents a higher or lower consistency, then mingling bronze ones and silver fours won't project an accurate game. Even if they distribute four bronze players amongst six silvers, the people already in silver have a different tier of players contributing to their games, which is skewing their "competitive ranking"
You aren't matched on your division standing you are matched on your elo(aka mmr) the purpose is get matched so are constantly playing against opponents that you have roughly a 50% chance to win. The league system is nothing more than a cosmetic to show progress, the difficulty of matches is all handled by mmr

Quote:
If they distribute a handicap evenly (tier mixing) then that is not true competition. If, that is, if being silver, or gold, etc. means anything.
Competition is fine, fact of the matter is, you cant show me a player who is in a tier they don't belong for an extended period of time, your entire opinion is based on the false premise that there are such people.


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Arikron

Member

03-20-2013

I'm not saying placement is broken. Maybe I'm not phrasing this well.

I'm saying if I'm placed in silver, which by the looks I will easily climb out of, then keep me with the silvers, all tiers of silver, when I climb through silver one and get promoted to gold, keep me with the golds.

It's....creating unnecessary drama and rage at the top and bottom of each tier.

In any form of competitive anything, how does mixing divisions net accurate rankings? If a game consists of eight silvers and two bronze, who are there because of a hidden mmr, then this could technically be considered "fixing" the results. Which, again, is a broken competitive environment.

I have zero problems with where I was placed it gives me motivation to climb.


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Fanaticmogg

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arikron View Post
I'm not saying placement is broken. Maybe I'm not phrasing this well.

I'm saying if I'm placed in silver, which by the looks I will easily climb out of, then keep me with the silvers, all tiers of silver, when I climb through silver one and get promoted to gold, keep me with the golds.
I think the issue is that players in, say, Silver 5 can actually be a lot lower, and their MMR will make them be matched against lower-division opponents, but they'll stay in Silver 5 because they can't drop divisions.

Basically, you're shown as being in Silver 5, but you're really in Bronze, which is reflected by the matchmaking.


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

03-20-2013

This is the reason why visible Elo should not have been removed. People who go through placement matches and get in silver but still wish to troll will do so without an repercussions outside of maybe getting banned in tribunal. Very low chances of that happening so they just perpetually sit in silver 5 trolling their way down to bronze 5 rating but get to still feel proud of themselves for being silver?

Risk/Reward. That is competitive Riot. Reward for no Risk is not competitive. People don't "have" to climb up tiers. They can be comfortable where they are and just troll around in ranked like it's normal games. However, for the people who WANT to climb this system took a mole hill and turned it into a mountain. There is no longer a "player skill level", and before I get blasted by Selcopa and his fanboys.

Riot (to my knowledge) refuses to give out their MMR algorithm so players can determine how/why they can climb/demote themselves with satisfaction. They "hide" the personal rating in favor of team rating which is a massively bad idea. It completely took the concept of solo/duo queue and tossed it out the window.

The rewards for the end season aren't super spectacular and those who want to try for them will get them. Riot needs to add an option that will show you your MMR/Elo in profile, remove the "division" system out of league and just make it out of 500 points per "tier". So at 500 points you get a chance in best of 5 to go up a tier.

Riot already clamps people for their MMR when moving up tiers. Whose bright ass idea was it to add divisions in on that?

Moving up 1-2 Divisions is less satisfying than watching yourself climb up against other people in your tier. Not only that but you have to do best of 3 per division level. Unless (uh-oh) your MMR says you deserve to be higher than the next division. So again we got back to the issue that an invisible unknown number which ALLLLLL these people are going to try and claim to know the exact algorithm and how it works and they got super intel on Riot HQ so they know the lowdown I really don't give a ****.

System is broken with divisions. I get tiers, but divisions make no sense. With the OP in mind I say this. You play with bronze tier players despite being silver, I'd rather just know "hey he's bronze" rather than someone on the team spamming chat "omg this (insert name) is bronze 3! BRONZE 3!!!!!" It gets annoying, at least if he was just bronze people could see how high he is up the ladder to getting to silver and would cut-back on the mixing of silver 1-3 being paired with bronze 2-5.


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PikaRioCed

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Senior Member

03-20-2013

Get better and win more games and you'll get more Silver teammates instead of bronzies. Good luck.
Divisions are there to make it difficult to rank up a league.


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Irish Red Cap

Senior Member

03-20-2013

Divisions are there to frustrate players in said divisions. I'm gold 3 now was silver 1 forever but gold is like a paradise compared to silver. Do I care that I have to get promoted multiple times to go up? Yes. It bugs me if I get into promo while in hot-streak and get promoted back up to 0 LP for the next division. So the best of 3 series where I won 2 straight games don't count for **** but to move me up a single "division"?

That's like throwing salt on an open wound. Oh hey you did good so lets take 2 of those wins and make them not count by just giving you a new number. Your MMR will stay the same, so will your ELO. At least if it was just climbing tiers someone could say theoretically argue "I'm climbing, slowly but I'm climbing" Same for losing "Well I lost a couple just need to get them back, almost below halfway on the tier list now". Rather than someone getting trolled 3 games in a row dropping a division to 50 LP in new division and having to win multiple ( i say multiple when it's really somewhere between 7-10) games just to reach even, even if their MMR was dead even for a perfect win/loss LP gain/loss ratio.


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PikaRioCed

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Senior Member

03-20-2013

You're still "climbing" though - if you win 51% of the time your MMR increases over time. If your MMR keeps increasing you will get more LP each win. If you reach a point where your MMR is ultra-high yet you're stuck in a league/division way below your potential the system will shower you with LP and take only very few away if you lose, to help push you up.


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